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If the Greens in England and Wales dropped their opposition to nuclear and also binned off a few of their more anti-egalitarian positions (I cannot in good fait

If the Greens in England and Wales dropped their opposition to nuclear and also binned off a few of their more anti-egalitarian positions (I cannot in good faith support criminal sentencing where a man goes to jail but a woman doesn't for the same crime for example) and I'd probably vote for them at this point. They've only recently been seen as a 'serious' party with mainstream appeal but climate change doesn't really care for our political sensibilities.

OJFord 4y ago
> a few of their more anti-egalitarian positions (I cannot in good faith support criminal sentencing where a man goes to jail but a woman doesn't for the same crime for example) That's nuts, haven't heard that before (not that I'm a supporter or anything), any more info on that - what crime for example? Searching not turning up much, since it's being sued for the opposite sexism at the moment; grepping https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/cj.html https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/cj.html, are you referring to these? > CJ381 Recognising the nature of the female prison population, with high levels of mental illness, experience of being a victim of crimes such as sexual assault and domestic violence, and caring responsibilities for children, the only women who should be in custody are those very few that commit serious and violent crimes and who present a threat to the public. > CJ382 For the vast majority of women in the criminal justice system, solutions in the community are more appropriate. Community sentences must be designed to take account of women’s particular vulnerabilities and domestic and childcare commitments. The restrictions placed on sentencers around breaches of community orders must be made more flexible. (Emphasis added.) Does seem a bit weird.
- lbriner 4y ago
  I think I understand where they are coming from but let's not pretend that dads in prison doesn't also have a massive effect on the development of their children (or not!). In some ways the only people who should be in prison are the most violent and who are a danger to the public but we don't have a great range of alternatives for someone who e.g. steals a large amount of money but is not dangerous to the public per-se.
  - OJFord 4y ago
    It also seems like 'scope creep', that they'd be better off as more of a single-issue party. My impression is that's how it's viewed by voters (those they have) anyway - I don't think Green party support is a good reflection of 'women out of prison' support.
- BoxOfRain 4y ago
  Yeah that's what I'm on about. I don't like how it sets up gendered sentencing guidelines at all let alone doing so in a way that doesn't create any practical benefit by being gendered. The argument could just as easily be made in a non-sexist way by applying it to all non-violent offenders and to be honest I'd probably agree with it. Do they think that children can shrug off a father in prison like it's nothing? The idea that under the Greens I'd be sent to prison for the configuration of my genitals rather than the severity of my crime is just abhorrent, in the same way I think the way women are often ignored and mistreated by the justice system is abhorrent. It's a real shame because I'd really like to vote for them, but it would mean compromising my core value that everybody should be equal under the law. We did not become a secular society only to immediately burden part of it with original sin again.
robin_reala 4y ago
Given that no party accurately matches 100% of your policies and that they’re unlikely to achieve a majority and force through the less-palatable-to-you policies (regardless of what they are) it’s probably best to vote based on the critically important issues, which currently is pretty much the climate crisis.
- BoxOfRain 4y ago
  I'm aware of this, but egalitarianism is a core value of mine that I won't compromise on even if it's in an unusual direction.

OJFord 4y ago

> a few of their more anti-egalitarian positions (I cannot in good faith support criminal sentencing where a man goes to jail but a woman doesn't for the same crime for example) That's nuts, haven't heard that before (not that I'm a supporter or anything), any more info on that - what crime for example? Searching not turning up much, since it's being sued for the opposite sexism at the moment; grepping https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/cj.html https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/cj.html, are you referring to these? > CJ381 Recognising the nature of the female prison population, with high levels of mental illness, experience of being a victim of crimes such as sexual assault and domestic violence, and caring responsibilities for children, the only women who should be in custody are those very few that commit serious and violent crimes and who present a threat to the public. > CJ382 For the vast majority of women in the criminal justice system, solutions in the community are more appropriate. Community sentences must be designed to take account of women’s particular vulnerabilities and domestic and childcare commitments. The restrictions placed on sentencers around breaches of community orders must be made more flexible. (Emphasis added.) Does seem a bit weird.

lbriner 4y ago
I think I understand where they are coming from but let's not pretend that dads in prison doesn't also have a massive effect on the development of their children (or not!). In some ways the only people who should be in prison are the most violent and who are a danger to the public but we don't have a great range of alternatives for someone who e.g. steals a large amount of money but is not dangerous to the public per-se.
- OJFord 4y ago
  It also seems like 'scope creep', that they'd be better off as more of a single-issue party. My impression is that's how it's viewed by voters (those they have) anyway - I don't think Green party support is a good reflection of 'women out of prison' support.
BoxOfRain 4y ago
Yeah that's what I'm on about. I don't like how it sets up gendered sentencing guidelines at all let alone doing so in a way that doesn't create any practical benefit by being gendered. The argument could just as easily be made in a non-sexist way by applying it to all non-violent offenders and to be honest I'd probably agree with it. Do they think that children can shrug off a father in prison like it's nothing? The idea that under the Greens I'd be sent to prison for the configuration of my genitals rather than the severity of my crime is just abhorrent, in the same way I think the way women are often ignored and mistreated by the justice system is abhorrent. It's a real shame because I'd really like to vote for them, but it would mean compromising my core value that everybody should be equal under the law. We did not become a secular society only to immediately burden part of it with original sin again.

robin_reala 4y ago

Given that no party accurately matches 100% of your policies and that they’re unlikely to achieve a majority and force through the less-palatable-to-you policies (regardless of what they are) it’s probably best to vote based on the critically important issues, which currently is pretty much the climate crisis.

BoxOfRain 4y ago
I'm aware of this, but egalitarianism is a core value of mine that I won't compromise on even if it's in an unusual direction.