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Here's the thing about this sort of reasoning that really stumps me: Those kids will, if all goes to plan, grow up and be oldies someday, yes? And if another

Here's the thing about this sort of reasoning that really stumps me: Those kids will, if all goes to plan, grow up and be oldies someday, yes? And if another terrible pandemic like this sweeps the world (which is not unlikely) they will be the ones in the hospitals dying in agony, slowly drowning in their own dissolving lung tissue. It is at that (thankfully theoretical) moment when the FULL benefits of having made this current sacrifice with devolve upon them. Only then will they be able to look at the rest us and say, "We are all in this together. Please don't sacrifice me to a slow and painful death, please make the sacrifice for me instead, and, y'know, stay home and wear masks." We care for the elderly because we love them, but if that's not enough for you, remember that the selfish reason to care for them is there in the background, waiting for you to get old and slip in the tub: we want to be cared for when we get old. Respect your elders.

oneoff786 4y ago
Everything is a balance. Are you supportive of china’s ridiculous Shanghai lockdown? Do I not respect my elders if I refuse that? Everything has costs and efficacy levels. One quality year of life of grandma vs. the economic opportunity of a new grad. It’s not easy at all. It is easy to claim that death outweighs all else and hide behind naive humanism
- carapace 4y ago
  > Are you supportive of china’s ridiculous Shanghai lockdown? I don't "support" anything the CCP does. I think that whole mode and form of government is destined to fail due to their fundamental denial of God. But that's a whole different kettle of fish, eh? The simple truth is that I have no idea how to manage a pandemic in a city like Shanghai. I'm glad it's not my problem. > With a population of 24.89 million as of 2021, Shanghai is the most populous urban area in China and the most populous city proper in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai > Do I not respect my elders if I refuse that? Do you live in Shanghai? > One quality year of life of grandma vs. the economic opportunity of a new grad. It’s not easy at all. It is easy to claim that death outweighs all else and hide behind naive humanism It's very easy for me: my mother is in the most-at-risk category. When her time comes I want it to be peaceful and painless, hopefully in her sleep. I do not want her to lungs to dissolve and drown her. The "economic opportunity" can go screw. Don't sacrifice my mom for that person's extra money. There are over a half dozen empty apartments next to our house, and dozens of families living in RV's a few blocks away. I make six figures and can't afford a to buy a home. You want me to risk my mom for someone else's "economic opportunity"? And you think I'm naive?
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    > The simple truth is that I have no idea how to manage a pandemic in a city like Shanghai. I'm glad it's not my problem. Cop out answer. That this problem is difficult and accepting deaths will occur in any scenario is the entire point. In the very least you can’t take a moralistic hardline stance when it personally affects you and say wel it’s hard when it affects other people only. > The "economic opportunity" can go screw. Don't sacrifice my mom for that person's extra money. There are over a half dozen empty apartments next to our house, and dozens of families living in RV's a few blocks away. I make six figures and can't afford a to buy a home. You want me to risk my mom for someone else's "economic opportunity"? And you think I'm naive? I do think you’re naive. Because you’re saying you make six figures and this isn’t about you. It’s about the person making low five figures, or maybe no figures. Oh no, you can’t afford a house. That sucks, but it’s also far from the bottom. Your mom can isolate herself without a lockdown. She may get sick either way. I’m in Massachusetts currently entering its 4th wave. This stuff is endemic now. What’s the probability that your mom does not get covid with another lockdown vs the probability she does? Is there a level improvement? Is it just a delay? What’s the probability that another lockdown causes a child to go hungry?
xorcist 4y ago
What you say makes sense as "don't visit the elderly". Not as "don't visit school".
- carapace 4y ago
  That's not how contagion works.
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    Endemic contagion works even more differently rendering the whole thing rather moot

oneoff786 4y ago

Everything is a balance. Are you supportive of china’s ridiculous Shanghai lockdown? Do I not respect my elders if I refuse that? Everything has costs and efficacy levels. One quality year of life of grandma vs. the economic opportunity of a new grad. It’s not easy at all. It is easy to claim that death outweighs all else and hide behind naive humanism

carapace 4y ago
> Are you supportive of china’s ridiculous Shanghai lockdown? I don't "support" anything the CCP does. I think that whole mode and form of government is destined to fail due to their fundamental denial of God. But that's a whole different kettle of fish, eh? The simple truth is that I have no idea how to manage a pandemic in a city like Shanghai. I'm glad it's not my problem. > With a population of 24.89 million as of 2021, Shanghai is the most populous urban area in China and the most populous city proper in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai > Do I not respect my elders if I refuse that? Do you live in Shanghai? > One quality year of life of grandma vs. the economic opportunity of a new grad. It’s not easy at all. It is easy to claim that death outweighs all else and hide behind naive humanism It's very easy for me: my mother is in the most-at-risk category. When her time comes I want it to be peaceful and painless, hopefully in her sleep. I do not want her to lungs to dissolve and drown her. The "economic opportunity" can go screw. Don't sacrifice my mom for that person's extra money. There are over a half dozen empty apartments next to our house, and dozens of families living in RV's a few blocks away. I make six figures and can't afford a to buy a home. You want me to risk my mom for someone else's "economic opportunity"? And you think I'm naive?
- oneoff786 4y ago
  > The simple truth is that I have no idea how to manage a pandemic in a city like Shanghai. I'm glad it's not my problem. Cop out answer. That this problem is difficult and accepting deaths will occur in any scenario is the entire point. In the very least you can’t take a moralistic hardline stance when it personally affects you and say wel it’s hard when it affects other people only. > The "economic opportunity" can go screw. Don't sacrifice my mom for that person's extra money. There are over a half dozen empty apartments next to our house, and dozens of families living in RV's a few blocks away. I make six figures and can't afford a to buy a home. You want me to risk my mom for someone else's "economic opportunity"? And you think I'm naive? I do think you’re naive. Because you’re saying you make six figures and this isn’t about you. It’s about the person making low five figures, or maybe no figures. Oh no, you can’t afford a house. That sucks, but it’s also far from the bottom. Your mom can isolate herself without a lockdown. She may get sick either way. I’m in Massachusetts currently entering its 4th wave. This stuff is endemic now. What’s the probability that your mom does not get covid with another lockdown vs the probability she does? Is there a level improvement? Is it just a delay? What’s the probability that another lockdown causes a child to go hungry?

xorcist 4y ago

What you say makes sense as "don't visit the elderly". Not as "don't visit school".

carapace 4y ago
That's not how contagion works.
- oneoff786 4y ago
  Endemic contagion works even more differently rendering the whole thing rather moot