4 ms·

The thing about football is that so many people are involved with it, it becomes a school wide event. You have players on the team and coaches, yes. But you al

The thing about football is that so many people are involved with it, it becomes a school wide event. You have players on the team and coaches, yes. But you also have cheerleaders, marching band, trainer assistants (usually students who want to go into medicine or physical therapy). There are homecoming pagents and dances plus the social event every weekend for the school that goes along with it. There’s no sport in high school that comes close to pulling everybody together the same way as football. There’s more to it than just classroom education vs sports in this case. It’s helping to foster a sense of community and school pride. Often there will be charity drives that coincide using the games as a place to make announcements.

buildsjets 4y ago
If football is so disruptive to the primary purpose of school, which is education, then it should be completely eliminated from schools. No taxpayer money should be used for this entertainment nonsense.
- taeric 4y ago
  I mean... Good luck? Often accounting tricks will be used such that it can look like taxes don't support it, too.
- izzydata 4y ago
  This is what I'd personally like to see. Anything not related to education should not be part of the education system. If some third party wants to establish various sport systems then that's fine. There are so many non-traditional ways and skills to teach kids that I think would be worth exploring, but sport doesn't even register on the scale of usefulness. Apparently we don't even teach finance in highschool yet or any kind of professional development skills.
  - auspex 4y ago
    If you play competitive sports you would see there is a huge skill set that is learned via sports. Teamwork, acting/thinking under pressure, detailed preparation, controlling nerves, performing in front of crowds (with high expectations), pride in your body and performance. These are just a few high level/low hanging fruits learned from competitive sport.
rufius 4y ago
> It’s helping to foster a sense of community and school pride. You forgot part: > It’s helping to foster a sense of community, school pride, *and brain damage*.
- corrral 4y ago
  I can confirm that coaches, admin, and parents are still pulling the whole "oh little Bobby's not got a concussion, he's just falling asleep in class and having obvious memory problems (true fucking story) because he's really tired, not because he took a terrible hit last Friday—he's fine to play in the next game" shit. Even after all the revelations about the risks of CTE and other brain-related harm from repeated concussions. Then there's the issue of discipline. The stereotype of athletes getting a pass on bad behavior or a little "help" on grades, because enforcing the rules would mean they'd have to miss a game or two, is based on real behavior that is very much alive today, not some relic of 1980s teen movies.
- brightball 4y ago
  FWIW, the rules are so strict now that football's probably safer than it's ever been to play. Additionally, I've read a ton of studies of this stuff and everything that I've found said the risk at the high school level is virtually nonexistent when compared with the general student body. In the college and professional level where everybody is bigger, stronger and faster it's an entirely different situation.
  - rufius 4y ago
    I’m just gonna go ahead and go out on a limb and say that getting hit in the head repeatedly isn’t good for you, especially if you’re a developing child. But to each their own.
    - brightball 4y ago
      It’s just not that simple. You aren’t repeatedly being hit in the head playing football. Even the linemen who have aggressive contact each play aren’t banging their heads together, they are using their hands. The helmets are largely protecting against incidental contact. Head trauma comes from rapid changes in momentum that cause the brain to bounce around inside the skull. Those from “horse collar” tackles, which are illegal now. Those from intentionally or unintentionally having helmet to helmet contact, which is also illegal. Virtually every type of helmet hit is penalized at this point. Soccer headers are probably much worse I would imagine.
taeric 4y ago
This is silly. There is nothing stopping any other sport from being as central more than the amount of money and effort that currently goes to football. Often in an arms race against neighboring schools. To try and prop it up as a natural thing that is good just feels like a major problem.
- toast0 4y ago
  > There is nothing stopping any other sport from being as central more than the amount of money and effort that currently goes to football. It's awful hard for the band to take the field at halftime at water polo. Those uniforms don't really want to be wet.
  - taeric 4y ago
    Congrats on picking a straw man sport. That said, no reason band couldn't be pushing more concerts than sideline offering at a game.
  - danShumway 4y ago
    I'm not sure. If every halftime band show involved someone trying to desperately play a saxophone while swimming, I vaguely suspect more people would actually watch halftime shows.
- brightball 4y ago
  There is. Other sports play a lot more games. Football has a predictable and consistent schedule, Friday nights in the fall. The limited number of home games (only 5 or 6 usually) also keeps involvement at a level that's not overwhelming for the student body. Additionally, football teams can support a lot more players than any other sport with rosters typically 50 players or more. Especially in smaller schools, this means almost everybody will know somebody who plays. Lastly, football is the most diverse sport in the US. There's a role for everybody. From smaller faster guys playing receiver, more medium sized athletes playing defense at linebacker or defensive back and bigger stronger guys playing offensive and defensive line. Even the soccer players can find a role at kicker / punter. It brings together more people from different racial backgrounds than any other sport as well. I was not an athlete in high school by any stretch. I was an overweight kid who played MtG, DnD and Duke Nukem all the time who just happened to be 6 feet tall. I played football for 4 years and learned a lot about hard work while I got in much better shape. Even though I was never a starter, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
lapcat 4y ago
> There’s no sport in high school that comes close to pulling everybody together the same way as football. Wow, that's not my high school experience. Sports divided the student body into the popular athletic kids and the unpopular academic kids. If you celebrate the football team and not the math team, the results are predictable, and they won't be to promote math.
- brightball 4y ago
  All of the strongest academics kids at my school were also involved in athletics in some way. We had two valedictorians, one who was excellent at cross country and soccer while the other was a fantastic golfer. Our salutatorian was homecoming queen and a cheerleader too.
- xeromal 4y ago
  Everyone has unique experiences but growing up, some of the smartest kids I knew with athletes. Not sure if it was because sports can often force you to give your all in all ways (sports and education) or if wanting a better shot at a college team required they be diligent in their studies. The top guy in my school ended up going to GA Tech on a baseball scholarship.
corrral 4y ago
Football's the reason I dropped band when I no longer needed an arts elective. I'd have stayed in all four years, otherwise. Being required to waste an entire evening at a football game to play for a few minutes here and there was insulting. I'm pretty sure it's also the reason the curriculum was built almost entirely around the microscopic musical niche of marching band, rather than instruments & skills that were more likely to be useful in life beyond college.
- brightball 4y ago
  The more I keep reading replies to my comments the more I'm realizing what a great high school I must have gone too. Our marching band always got superior ratings every year in their own competitions and had a blast playing throughout all of the games. Everybody in our band seemed to have a great time with it, especially the drummers.
  - taeric 4y ago
    This is classic survivor and selection bias. You likely didn't notice all of the people sidelined by this. I suspect selection bias also plays in to all of the negativity. But variety reigns and places that had more offerings almost certainly had more success.
    - brightball 4y ago
      How could someone be sidelined by this? EDIT: Since we've hit the reply nesting limit. I still don't see how having an activity that involves so many people sidelines anyone or how a lack of that activity would improve the involvement? I can't think of any school sanctioned activities that discriminated against any student based on their appearance, even cheer. I had giant glasses that slid down my nose, a belly and braces. Believe me, the only thing that kept me from feeling included was my own perception of myself. Having coaches and a routine that forced me to exercise and lift weights was one of the best things I ever did.
      - taeric 4y ago
ryandrake 4y ago
> The thing about football is that so many people are involved with it, it becomes a school wide event. For many small town High Schools in the US, it's not just a school-wide event, it's a town-wide event. I remember in my small town, during High School football season, the entire town mobilized around the event. Sales at local stores, drinks and catering to the field/bleachers, specials at bars post-game for the grown-ups, and so on. The football game was quite literally the most exciting and important thing going on within a 25 mile radius of the school. As for it becoming a school-wide event, your post is only part of it: Yes, football manages to pull together a lot of the students, not just the athletes, which is positive. But it also can very negatively disrupt the academic routine. Teachers would plan lighter days and/or skip topics because "It'S FoOtBaLl DaY" and they knew everyone was mentally checked out because football game. Athletes would get special exceptions from academic expectations, get special treatment in the classroom, get treated with kid gloves discipline-wise. High School athletics was so important to the entire town that it kind of established the entire local area's social totem pole.

buildsjets 4y ago

If football is so disruptive to the primary purpose of school, which is education, then it should be completely eliminated from schools. No taxpayer money should be used for this entertainment nonsense.

taeric 4y ago
I mean... Good luck? Often accounting tricks will be used such that it can look like taxes don't support it, too.
izzydata 4y ago
This is what I'd personally like to see. Anything not related to education should not be part of the education system. If some third party wants to establish various sport systems then that's fine. There are so many non-traditional ways and skills to teach kids that I think would be worth exploring, but sport doesn't even register on the scale of usefulness. Apparently we don't even teach finance in highschool yet or any kind of professional development skills.
- auspex 4y ago
  If you play competitive sports you would see there is a huge skill set that is learned via sports. Teamwork, acting/thinking under pressure, detailed preparation, controlling nerves, performing in front of crowds (with high expectations), pride in your body and performance. These are just a few high level/low hanging fruits learned from competitive sport.

rufius 4y ago

> It’s helping to foster a sense of community and school pride. You forgot part: > It’s helping to foster a sense of community, school pride, *and brain damage*.

corrral 4y ago
I can confirm that coaches, admin, and parents are still pulling the whole "oh little Bobby's not got a concussion, he's just falling asleep in class and having obvious memory problems (true fucking story) because he's really tired, not because he took a terrible hit last Friday—he's fine to play in the next game" shit. Even after all the revelations about the risks of CTE and other brain-related harm from repeated concussions. Then there's the issue of discipline. The stereotype of athletes getting a pass on bad behavior or a little "help" on grades, because enforcing the rules would mean they'd have to miss a game or two, is based on real behavior that is very much alive today, not some relic of 1980s teen movies.
brightball 4y ago
FWIW, the rules are so strict now that football's probably safer than it's ever been to play. Additionally, I've read a ton of studies of this stuff and everything that I've found said the risk at the high school level is virtually nonexistent when compared with the general student body. In the college and professional level where everybody is bigger, stronger and faster it's an entirely different situation.
- rufius 4y ago
  I’m just gonna go ahead and go out on a limb and say that getting hit in the head repeatedly isn’t good for you, especially if you’re a developing child. But to each their own.
  - brightball 4y ago
    It’s just not that simple. You aren’t repeatedly being hit in the head playing football. Even the linemen who have aggressive contact each play aren’t banging their heads together, they are using their hands. The helmets are largely protecting against incidental contact. Head trauma comes from rapid changes in momentum that cause the brain to bounce around inside the skull. Those from “horse collar” tackles, which are illegal now. Those from intentionally or unintentionally having helmet to helmet contact, which is also illegal. Virtually every type of helmet hit is penalized at this point. Soccer headers are probably much worse I would imagine.

taeric 4y ago

This is silly. There is nothing stopping any other sport from being as central more than the amount of money and effort that currently goes to football. Often in an arms race against neighboring schools. To try and prop it up as a natural thing that is good just feels like a major problem.

toast0 4y ago
> There is nothing stopping any other sport from being as central more than the amount of money and effort that currently goes to football. It's awful hard for the band to take the field at halftime at water polo. Those uniforms don't really want to be wet.
- taeric 4y ago
  Congrats on picking a straw man sport. That said, no reason band couldn't be pushing more concerts than sideline offering at a game.
- danShumway 4y ago
  I'm not sure. If every halftime band show involved someone trying to desperately play a saxophone while swimming, I vaguely suspect more people would actually watch halftime shows.
brightball 4y ago
There is. Other sports play a lot more games. Football has a predictable and consistent schedule, Friday nights in the fall. The limited number of home games (only 5 or 6 usually) also keeps involvement at a level that's not overwhelming for the student body. Additionally, football teams can support a lot more players than any other sport with rosters typically 50 players or more. Especially in smaller schools, this means almost everybody will know somebody who plays. Lastly, football is the most diverse sport in the US. There's a role for everybody. From smaller faster guys playing receiver, more medium sized athletes playing defense at linebacker or defensive back and bigger stronger guys playing offensive and defensive line. Even the soccer players can find a role at kicker / punter. It brings together more people from different racial backgrounds than any other sport as well. I was not an athlete in high school by any stretch. I was an overweight kid who played MtG, DnD and Duke Nukem all the time who just happened to be 6 feet tall. I played football for 4 years and learned a lot about hard work while I got in much better shape. Even though I was never a starter, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

lapcat 4y ago

> There’s no sport in high school that comes close to pulling everybody together the same way as football. Wow, that's not my high school experience. Sports divided the student body into the popular athletic kids and the unpopular academic kids. If you celebrate the football team and not the math team, the results are predictable, and they won't be to promote math.

brightball 4y ago
All of the strongest academics kids at my school were also involved in athletics in some way. We had two valedictorians, one who was excellent at cross country and soccer while the other was a fantastic golfer. Our salutatorian was homecoming queen and a cheerleader too.
xeromal 4y ago
Everyone has unique experiences but growing up, some of the smartest kids I knew with athletes. Not sure if it was because sports can often force you to give your all in all ways (sports and education) or if wanting a better shot at a college team required they be diligent in their studies. The top guy in my school ended up going to GA Tech on a baseball scholarship.

corrral 4y ago

Football's the reason I dropped band when I no longer needed an arts elective. I'd have stayed in all four years, otherwise. Being required to waste an entire evening at a football game to play for a few minutes here and there was insulting. I'm pretty sure it's also the reason the curriculum was built almost entirely around the microscopic musical niche of marching band, rather than instruments & skills that were more likely to be useful in life beyond college.

brightball 4y ago
The more I keep reading replies to my comments the more I'm realizing what a great high school I must have gone too. Our marching band always got superior ratings every year in their own competitions and had a blast playing throughout all of the games. Everybody in our band seemed to have a great time with it, especially the drummers.
- taeric 4y ago
  This is classic survivor and selection bias. You likely didn't notice all of the people sidelined by this. I suspect selection bias also plays in to all of the negativity. But variety reigns and places that had more offerings almost certainly had more success.
  - brightball 4y ago
    How could someone be sidelined by this? EDIT: Since we've hit the reply nesting limit. I still don't see how having an activity that involves so many people sidelines anyone or how a lack of that activity would improve the involvement? I can't think of any school sanctioned activities that discriminated against any student based on their appearance, even cheer. I had giant glasses that slid down my nose, a belly and braces. Believe me, the only thing that kept me from feeling included was my own perception of myself. Having coaches and a routine that forced me to exercise and lift weights was one of the best things I ever did.
    - taeric 4y ago

ryandrake 4y ago

> The thing about football is that so many people are involved with it, it becomes a school wide event. For many small town High Schools in the US, it's not just a school-wide event, it's a town-wide event. I remember in my small town, during High School football season, the entire town mobilized around the event. Sales at local stores, drinks and catering to the field/bleachers, specials at bars post-game for the grown-ups, and so on. The football game was quite literally the most exciting and important thing going on within a 25 mile radius of the school. As for it becoming a school-wide event, your post is only part of it: Yes, football manages to pull together a lot of the students, not just the athletes, which is positive. But it also can very negatively disrupt the academic routine. Teachers would plan lighter days and/or skip topics because "It'S FoOtBaLl DaY" and they knew everyone was mentally checked out because football game. Athletes would get special exceptions from academic expectations, get special treatment in the classroom, get treated with kid gloves discipline-wise. High School athletics was so important to the entire town that it kind of established the entire local area's social totem pole.