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> So I suspect that this problem is vastly overstated. > It's not like the US educational system was doing a great job before the pandemic. I used to teach in

> So I suspect that this problem is vastly overstated. > It's not like the US educational system was doing a great job before the pandemic. I used to teach in college, and a lot of student were not properly prepared. Huh? So you think the problem of being behind is overstated, but observed many students not being properly prepared yourself when you taught?

lapcat 4y ago
> Huh? There's a typo: it should have said "a lot of students". Not sure whether that was the confusion here.
- endisneigh 4y ago
  You're saying that you taught and felt people were not properly prepared, but also believe people are not behind?
  - lapcat 4y ago
    What I'm saying is that there's no uniformity. Incoming college freshman are mostly the same age, but their preparation for college varies dramatically, depending largely on where they came from. At any given age, many US students are "behind" their peers, because they're not all receiving the same education.
    - endisneigh 4y ago
      That doesn't mean they're not behind, though? If anything it just means most students are behind. It's strange you say that the problem is overstated but also say that you encountered many kids yourself who were not prepared.
      - lapcat 4y ago
        > That doesn't mean they're not behind, though? As I asked originally, what does "behind" even mean? It seems to depend crucially on a schedule and expectations. This is why I mentioned social promotion, where students move up in grade simply because a year has passed. The pandemic has certainly messed up the standard academic schedule, without a doubt. But so what? Are kids irreparably harmed because the standard academic schedule was messed up? I don't think so. Kids were already moving at different educational paces before the pandemic. I'm not saying it's good that educational quality differs by school district. But this is a socioeconomic problem. There's no "natural human" educational system that the pandemic messed up. When you compare US kids with, say, the great English philosopher John Stuart Mill, we're all way behind. As a kid, J.S. Mill was the beneficiary of an educational experiment almost without equal in history. He was taught Greek at the age of three! Who gets that?
        endisneigh 4y ago
        The article showed standardized test performance went down, which is what it means by behind. You seem to be ranting about something irrelevant. The authors never claimed kids were irreparably damaged. Your take is just so bizarre.
        lapcat 4y ago
        > The article showed standardized test performance went down, which is what it means by behind. The schedule of standardized tests is not written in stone for eternity. If the academic schedule is messed up, then give the tests later. Let's say you take a year off between high school and college. Are you "behind"? In one sense, yes. But that doesn't mean your overall college experience will be any worse than someone who started college immediately after high school. Why is the standard schedule so important? Arguably everyone should take some time off between high school and college to get all the drinking/drugs/partying out of your system before you get serious. I certainly squandered my first couple years. ;-) But then I worked like crazy and "made it up" as a junior and senior.
balefrost 4y ago
If you read the article, it specifically points to remote learning as the thing that put students behind. I think the commenter believes that the negative effect of remote learning is overstated relative to other factors.
- endisneigh 4y ago
  the commenter didn't even mention remote at all tho
  - balefrost 4y ago
    I think it's fair to assume, in the discussion of an article, that all the discussion is related to said article.
  - jdmichal 4y ago
    Grice's maxim of relation: Be relevant. https://psychology.fandom.com/wiki/Gricean_maxims#Maxim_of_Relation https://psychology.fandom.com/wiki/Gricean_maxims#Maxim_of_R...
deleted 4y ago
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lapcat 4y ago

> Huh? There's a typo: it should have said "a lot of students". Not sure whether that was the confusion here.

endisneigh 4y ago
You're saying that you taught and felt people were not properly prepared, but also believe people are not behind?
- lapcat 4y ago
  What I'm saying is that there's no uniformity. Incoming college freshman are mostly the same age, but their preparation for college varies dramatically, depending largely on where they came from. At any given age, many US students are "behind" their peers, because they're not all receiving the same education.
  - endisneigh 4y ago
    That doesn't mean they're not behind, though? If anything it just means most students are behind. It's strange you say that the problem is overstated but also say that you encountered many kids yourself who were not prepared.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      > That doesn't mean they're not behind, though? As I asked originally, what does "behind" even mean? It seems to depend crucially on a schedule and expectations. This is why I mentioned social promotion, where students move up in grade simply because a year has passed. The pandemic has certainly messed up the standard academic schedule, without a doubt. But so what? Are kids irreparably harmed because the standard academic schedule was messed up? I don't think so. Kids were already moving at different educational paces before the pandemic. I'm not saying it's good that educational quality differs by school district. But this is a socioeconomic problem. There's no "natural human" educational system that the pandemic messed up. When you compare US kids with, say, the great English philosopher John Stuart Mill, we're all way behind. As a kid, J.S. Mill was the beneficiary of an educational experiment almost without equal in history. He was taught Greek at the age of three! Who gets that?
      - endisneigh 4y ago
        The article showed standardized test performance went down, which is what it means by behind. You seem to be ranting about something irrelevant. The authors never claimed kids were irreparably damaged. Your take is just so bizarre.
        lapcat 4y ago
        > The article showed standardized test performance went down, which is what it means by behind. The schedule of standardized tests is not written in stone for eternity. If the academic schedule is messed up, then give the tests later. Let's say you take a year off between high school and college. Are you "behind"? In one sense, yes. But that doesn't mean your overall college experience will be any worse than someone who started college immediately after high school. Why is the standard schedule so important? Arguably everyone should take some time off between high school and college to get all the drinking/drugs/partying out of your system before you get serious. I certainly squandered my first couple years. ;-) But then I worked like crazy and "made it up" as a junior and senior.

balefrost 4y ago

If you read the article, it specifically points to remote learning as the thing that put students behind. I think the commenter believes that the negative effect of remote learning is overstated relative to other factors.

endisneigh 4y ago
the commenter didn't even mention remote at all tho
- balefrost 4y ago
  I think it's fair to assume, in the discussion of an article, that all the discussion is related to said article.
- jdmichal 4y ago
  Grice's maxim of relation: Be relevant. https://psychology.fandom.com/wiki/Gricean_maxims#Maxim_of_Relation https://psychology.fandom.com/wiki/Gricean_maxims#Maxim_of_R...

deleted 4y ago

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