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This is the same logic behind the "great replacement" conspiracy theory, the idea that Democratic politicians in the US will encourage mass immigration so that

This is the same logic behind the "great replacement" conspiracy theory, the idea that Democratic politicians in the US will encourage mass immigration so that they get more voters. However much we want to doubt our politicians, I really don't think they would change the demographic makeup or worsen the education of our country simply for votes.

yonaguska 4y ago
If you don't believe they're doing it for votes, why do you think they're doing it? I'm not even white, and it seems obvious to me that it's happening. In some cases, people support this because they are racist, and simply hate all things white. Going through college, I had several professors that were outright about their position on immigration and how it will fix the racism problem in America by making whites a minority. Classmates as well, that were quite open about this around me, as I wasn't totally white, I was mixed. It was insane. But in the real world, I see politicians not outright saying this is the goal, but they cheer it on, because they anticipate the demographic changes actually changing voter demographics. Even in Mexico, I've been asked why American politicians keep encouraging people to come up to the US. Maybe they aren't actively encouraging immigration, but the people that I met and my relatives in Mexico seemed to think so. I'm not sure if this is a product of cartel or political marketing, but the Cartels are literally using democrats messaging to advertise to potential immigrants, or so I'm told.
- woleium 4y ago
  Encouraging unskilled immigrants from Mexico is preferable to fruit rotting in the fields. This is more than a one dimensional issue :)
  - yonaguska 4y ago
    That specific scenario is almost entirely covered by temporary work visas. Unskilled immigrants are also cutting wages in restaurants, factories, construction, and all manner of other industries, all over the country. And this has been going on for generations. It's modern day slavery. These people are held in this psuedo-citizenship limbo and are often abused by their employers. If you are wondering why there haven't been any real labor movements in the past 30 years, this is why. Voter replacement is not the only reason for unfettered immigration, importing a large amount of under-educated people also replaces the middle class by driving the value of unskilled labor down. And that's why an unsecured border has bipartisan support by the politicians profiting.
- usrn 4y ago
  [flagged]
- scythe 4y ago
  >If you don't believe they're doing it for votes I don't believe they're going to get votes: https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/democratic-dominance-of-the-nonwhite https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/democratic-dominanc... >I see politicians not outright saying this is the goal, but they cheer it on, because they anticipate the demographic changes actually changing voter demographics. This started happening recently as a way to get attention. Before the engagement algorithms, you mostly if not only heard about it from that elitist faction of the Democrats that doesn't want to bother engaging with the noncollegiates. >I've been asked why American politicians keep encouraging people to come up to the US. Joe Biden was literally on TV saying "Don't come here". "Encouraging" is misleading language at best. >Maybe they aren't actively encouraging immigration, but the people that I met and my relatives in Mexico seemed to think so. Mexicans aren't huge fans of US immigration policy. Net migration to the US from Mexico is very small and sometimes negative; immigrants come from Central America through Mexico to the US. Mexicans blame the US for the difficulties they have with those people, and may be inclined to exaggerate our influence over the situation. >why Ultimately, it comes down to the political chess game that is American two-partyism. Democrats' immigration policy appeals to two subsets of their voter base, which, most importantly, are willing to change their behavior because of Democrats' policy position. The uncomfortable reality of the American political system is that it tends to screw over people who are loyal to a party. But immigration liberalization appeals to two "swing" caucuses: - technocracy-inclined Democrats who like growth-promoting economic policy tend to support immigration and are willing to vote Republican if they perceive the Democrats as too welfarist, and - globalist radlibs and a few Trotskyists who view nation-states and borders as inherently immoral and might not vote at all unless they get immigration loosening. There's also the recent problem where Donald Trump froze aid to Central America that was meant to disincentivize migration by making staying put more attractive: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/09/17/761266169/trump-froze-aid-to-guatemala-now-programs-are-shutting-down https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/09/17/7612661... In this case the aid was too small to be a real problem for the federal budget, so it seems easier to interpret it as one of Trump's spiteful maneuvers (see also: telling Georgia Republicans not to vote in the Senate runoff). Democrats have been reluctant to criticize this obvious foible head-on because it would annoy the aforementioned swing caucuses -- in fact, Biden tried to talk about Obama's success in curbing illegal immigration but was harangued for doing so in the Democratic debates. In short, the duopoly sucks, support the Alaskan election reform.
nathanaldensr 4y ago
You are incredibly naive and trusting.

yonaguska 4y ago

If you don't believe they're doing it for votes, why do you think they're doing it? I'm not even white, and it seems obvious to me that it's happening. In some cases, people support this because they are racist, and simply hate all things white. Going through college, I had several professors that were outright about their position on immigration and how it will fix the racism problem in America by making whites a minority. Classmates as well, that were quite open about this around me, as I wasn't totally white, I was mixed. It was insane. But in the real world, I see politicians not outright saying this is the goal, but they cheer it on, because they anticipate the demographic changes actually changing voter demographics. Even in Mexico, I've been asked why American politicians keep encouraging people to come up to the US. Maybe they aren't actively encouraging immigration, but the people that I met and my relatives in Mexico seemed to think so. I'm not sure if this is a product of cartel or political marketing, but the Cartels are literally using democrats messaging to advertise to potential immigrants, or so I'm told.

woleium 4y ago
Encouraging unskilled immigrants from Mexico is preferable to fruit rotting in the fields. This is more than a one dimensional issue :)
- yonaguska 4y ago
  That specific scenario is almost entirely covered by temporary work visas. Unskilled immigrants are also cutting wages in restaurants, factories, construction, and all manner of other industries, all over the country. And this has been going on for generations. It's modern day slavery. These people are held in this psuedo-citizenship limbo and are often abused by their employers. If you are wondering why there haven't been any real labor movements in the past 30 years, this is why. Voter replacement is not the only reason for unfettered immigration, importing a large amount of under-educated people also replaces the middle class by driving the value of unskilled labor down. And that's why an unsecured border has bipartisan support by the politicians profiting.
usrn 4y ago
[flagged]
scythe 4y ago
>If you don't believe they're doing it for votes I don't believe they're going to get votes: https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/democratic-dominance-of-the-nonwhite https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/democratic-dominanc... >I see politicians not outright saying this is the goal, but they cheer it on, because they anticipate the demographic changes actually changing voter demographics. This started happening recently as a way to get attention. Before the engagement algorithms, you mostly if not only heard about it from that elitist faction of the Democrats that doesn't want to bother engaging with the noncollegiates. >I've been asked why American politicians keep encouraging people to come up to the US. Joe Biden was literally on TV saying "Don't come here". "Encouraging" is misleading language at best. >Maybe they aren't actively encouraging immigration, but the people that I met and my relatives in Mexico seemed to think so. Mexicans aren't huge fans of US immigration policy. Net migration to the US from Mexico is very small and sometimes negative; immigrants come from Central America through Mexico to the US. Mexicans blame the US for the difficulties they have with those people, and may be inclined to exaggerate our influence over the situation. >why Ultimately, it comes down to the political chess game that is American two-partyism. Democrats' immigration policy appeals to two subsets of their voter base, which, most importantly, are willing to change their behavior because of Democrats' policy position. The uncomfortable reality of the American political system is that it tends to screw over people who are loyal to a party. But immigration liberalization appeals to two "swing" caucuses: - technocracy-inclined Democrats who like growth-promoting economic policy tend to support immigration and are willing to vote Republican if they perceive the Democrats as too welfarist, and - globalist radlibs and a few Trotskyists who view nation-states and borders as inherently immoral and might not vote at all unless they get immigration loosening. There's also the recent problem where Donald Trump froze aid to Central America that was meant to disincentivize migration by making staying put more attractive: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/09/17/761266169/trump-froze-aid-to-guatemala-now-programs-are-shutting-down https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/09/17/7612661... In this case the aid was too small to be a real problem for the federal budget, so it seems easier to interpret it as one of Trump's spiteful maneuvers (see also: telling Georgia Republicans not to vote in the Senate runoff). Democrats have been reluctant to criticize this obvious foible head-on because it would annoy the aforementioned swing caucuses -- in fact, Biden tried to talk about Obama's success in curbing illegal immigration but was harangued for doing so in the Democratic debates. In short, the duopoly sucks, support the Alaskan election reform.

nathanaldensr 4y ago

You are incredibly naive and trusting.