4 ms·

One problem is that if all the engineers are devoted to web3 nonsense, who is working on the real stuff? I know it’s not a zero sum game but at the same time we

One problem is that if all the engineers are devoted to web3 nonsense, who is working on the real stuff? I know it’s not a zero sum game but at the same time we only have limited resources, and at a country-level scale the corporations interested in web3 employ a lot of engineers, at a scale where whatever FAANG is doing, the rest of the world is keen on doing. I guess what I’m saying is web3 being terrible, scammy, and useless don’t strike me as reasons why it won’t supplant the web as it exists today. It could just win through attrition, as everyone interested in keeping the current web going retires and dies, as there’s no money in maintaining old systems; while those making fortunes off web3 scams are massively incentivized to keep the scam money flowing.

guerrilla 4y ago
Are they though? How many people do you know working on shitcoins? How many people do you know working on real things?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- sanderjd 4y ago
  For what it's worth, I do think this is (or was) a problem. For awhile late last year and early this year a large proportion of the people I saw leaving my big tech company were going into blockchain stuff. I suspect the current correction will put an end to that though, which I must say seems like a good thing.
- ModernMech 4y ago
  > How many people do you know working on real things? Pretty much everyone I know working in industry is working on imaginary things like increasing engagement and aggregating data. They are doing this because FAANG want them to, not because this is critical work that needs to be done for society.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    I anticipated this objection to my phrasing and I agree, but I couldn't think of another word to use :) Maybe "other" things would have sufficed.
- lillecarl 4y ago
  I know exactly 0 people doing any kind of crypto work. I do know plenty that are in the ponzi scheme though.
rsynnott 4y ago
> One problem is that if all the engineers are devoted to web3 nonsense, who is working on the real stuff? Very few engineers are working on web3 nonsense. > and at a country-level scale the corporations interested in web3 employ a lot of engineers They're really not. Like, if you're defining "interested in web3" as "they have occasionally said the word 'blockchain' in an attempt to get some press", yeah, sure. But not that many large companies are actually putting significant resources into this. Of the really big tech companies... maybe Facebook is putting substantial resources into it, or has in the past? Though surely not a significant part of their total resources. The others, not at all, really.
- ModernMech 4y ago
  I’m mostly forecasting in my comment based on what I’ve seen happen to the current industry. It’s completely centered around nonsense like “engagement”, and because there’s so much money involved it impacts the direction of the industry all the way down to education of school children. We have students today who have no idea what a blockchain is, but they know they can make a fat salary working on it, and that’s enough for them to devote their career to the idea. They come to school demanding courses in blockchain, and so blockchain 101 is born. Then you need professors to teach it so you hire the blockchain researchers funded by Facebook, because they’re the experts. Next you have blockchain publications and conferences (it’s already started). Pretty soon the nsf starts funding blockchain research at the government level and your tax dollars are hard at work doing Facebook’s research for them. Before you know, at a country-level you have devoted countless man hours and research dollars toward something no one except Facebook really wanted in the first place. That’s the way I see it going.
  - rsynnott 4y ago
    Eh, there've been technology fads before; they sometimes make it into universities, but rarely further. When I was in college, XML databases were very much the thing, and there was a whole optional course on them (which I didn't do). You don't hear much about XML databases these days. (I think a couple of years before this, it would have been CORBA).
  - 4y ago
nightski 4y ago
I'm sorry but you do not get to arbitrate what engineers enjoy and choose to work on, whether that is web3 or something completely different. This authoritarian approach justified "for the good of humanity" is dangerous. It actually makes me sad this comment is on "Hacker News". We should value tinkering and hacking on what we enjoy.
- exit 4y ago
  and this gets at what's really threatening about web3: it's an inherently libertarian technology and authoritarians on both the left and right of the cultural/political spectrum are terrified by that.
  - vkou 4y ago
    It's libertarian in the sense that the final stage of libertarianism is that the well-connected insiders get to abuse everyone else, with zero recourse against them. In this sense, Web3 is a tremendous success of libertarian thought. No rules, no laws, and an absolute honeypot for hustlers, thieves, and fraudsters. Anonymous founders running off with the money, repeat fraudsters pulling off bigger and bigger heists, and money being poured into the dumbest schemes which, inevitably, end poorly. I can't think of a better condemnation of libertarianism.
- vkou 4y ago
  We shouldn't value net-negative tinkering, which is what pyramids and pump-and dumps are, so I would say that these engineers are mostly making the world a worse place. However, I don't think most of the work that goes into internet companies at the moment necessarily makes the world a better place, either.

guerrilla 4y ago

Are they though? How many people do you know working on shitcoins? How many people do you know working on real things?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
sanderjd 4y ago
For what it's worth, I do think this is (or was) a problem. For awhile late last year and early this year a large proportion of the people I saw leaving my big tech company were going into blockchain stuff. I suspect the current correction will put an end to that though, which I must say seems like a good thing.
ModernMech 4y ago
> How many people do you know working on real things? Pretty much everyone I know working in industry is working on imaginary things like increasing engagement and aggregating data. They are doing this because FAANG want them to, not because this is critical work that needs to be done for society.
- guerrilla 4y ago
  I anticipated this objection to my phrasing and I agree, but I couldn't think of another word to use :) Maybe "other" things would have sufficed.
lillecarl 4y ago
I know exactly 0 people doing any kind of crypto work. I do know plenty that are in the ponzi scheme though.

rsynnott 4y ago

> One problem is that if all the engineers are devoted to web3 nonsense, who is working on the real stuff? Very few engineers are working on web3 nonsense. > and at a country-level scale the corporations interested in web3 employ a lot of engineers They're really not. Like, if you're defining "interested in web3" as "they have occasionally said the word 'blockchain' in an attempt to get some press", yeah, sure. But not that many large companies are actually putting significant resources into this. Of the really big tech companies... maybe Facebook is putting substantial resources into it, or has in the past? Though surely not a significant part of their total resources. The others, not at all, really.

ModernMech 4y ago
I’m mostly forecasting in my comment based on what I’ve seen happen to the current industry. It’s completely centered around nonsense like “engagement”, and because there’s so much money involved it impacts the direction of the industry all the way down to education of school children. We have students today who have no idea what a blockchain is, but they know they can make a fat salary working on it, and that’s enough for them to devote their career to the idea. They come to school demanding courses in blockchain, and so blockchain 101 is born. Then you need professors to teach it so you hire the blockchain researchers funded by Facebook, because they’re the experts. Next you have blockchain publications and conferences (it’s already started). Pretty soon the nsf starts funding blockchain research at the government level and your tax dollars are hard at work doing Facebook’s research for them. Before you know, at a country-level you have devoted countless man hours and research dollars toward something no one except Facebook really wanted in the first place. That’s the way I see it going.
- rsynnott 4y ago
  Eh, there've been technology fads before; they sometimes make it into universities, but rarely further. When I was in college, XML databases were very much the thing, and there was a whole optional course on them (which I didn't do). You don't hear much about XML databases these days. (I think a couple of years before this, it would have been CORBA).
- 4y ago

nightski 4y ago

I'm sorry but you do not get to arbitrate what engineers enjoy and choose to work on, whether that is web3 or something completely different. This authoritarian approach justified "for the good of humanity" is dangerous. It actually makes me sad this comment is on "Hacker News". We should value tinkering and hacking on what we enjoy.

exit 4y ago
and this gets at what's really threatening about web3: it's an inherently libertarian technology and authoritarians on both the left and right of the cultural/political spectrum are terrified by that.
- vkou 4y ago
  It's libertarian in the sense that the final stage of libertarianism is that the well-connected insiders get to abuse everyone else, with zero recourse against them. In this sense, Web3 is a tremendous success of libertarian thought. No rules, no laws, and an absolute honeypot for hustlers, thieves, and fraudsters. Anonymous founders running off with the money, repeat fraudsters pulling off bigger and bigger heists, and money being poured into the dumbest schemes which, inevitably, end poorly. I can't think of a better condemnation of libertarianism.
vkou 4y ago
We shouldn't value net-negative tinkering, which is what pyramids and pump-and dumps are, so I would say that these engineers are mostly making the world a worse place. However, I don't think most of the work that goes into internet companies at the moment necessarily makes the world a better place, either.