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This is how you end up a refugee, rather than an ex-pat.

OJFord 4y ago
That's quite extreme; maybe start to pay more attention as your home country deteriorates to (or if it starts off at) that sort of level?
- ModernMech 4y ago
  > maybe start to pay more attention as your home country deteriorates The reasons for why countries deteriorate are vast and complicated. During such trying times, there’s always a group selling the line that deterioration is happening because some “other” is causing it, and those tends to be immigrants, refugees, Jews, or any of the other go-to scape goats. So by the time your country is so bad that you notice it at the local level (I believe that dysfunction really is trickle down), the dysfunction at all levels is so deep that it’s too late for you to find the cause if you haven’t been paying close attention all along. Because any such quest for knowledge is filled with so many land mines and sand traps that the truth is completely obscured. You’re liable to get sucked into the easy to understand and straightforward explanation with a simple solution; the others cause it, so get rid of the others to fix it. Problem solved right?
  - OJFord 4y ago
    I don't think anyone's advocating for sticking your head in the sand, there's a huge difference between not actively seeking/'keeping up to date with' the news, and not noticing deterioration in your country until there is 'deep dysfunction at all levels'. Other people mention things, or you overhear things, you notice things, you walk past a newspaper stand, something references something, etc. I mostly disengaged with the news (having previously been a newspaper subscriber), apart from via HN really, and yet I was still (not via HN) aware of Russia's impending (as it was at the time) invasion of Ukraine. (And I do not live in Ukraine. I imagine it was very much more obvious there. A country in Ukraine's position - the threat of Russia on the border - is the sort of thing I mean that perhaps should make you pay more attention anyway with regard to your ex-pat vs. refugee concern. I live in the UK, and say what you want about whatever, a lot of excrement would have to hit a lot of fans before I would have any concern about becoming an ex-pat before being made a refugee. I (fortunately) do not have to read the news everyday to prevent that.)
bnralt 4y ago
Someone who ignores the news but spends 20 minutes looking at the Vote411 guide right before they vote is going to be more informed about who they're voting for than 99% of the population. If you've already decided that you aren't going to vote for Biden/Trump/whomever, spending an hour everyday for four year reading about how terrible they are and how right you are isn't going to change anything.

That's quite extreme; maybe start to pay more attention as your home country deteriorates to (or if it starts off at) that sort of level?

ModernMech 4y ago
> maybe start to pay more attention as your home country deteriorates The reasons for why countries deteriorate are vast and complicated. During such trying times, there’s always a group selling the line that deterioration is happening because some “other” is causing it, and those tends to be immigrants, refugees, Jews, or any of the other go-to scape goats. So by the time your country is so bad that you notice it at the local level (I believe that dysfunction really is trickle down), the dysfunction at all levels is so deep that it’s too late for you to find the cause if you haven’t been paying close attention all along. Because any such quest for knowledge is filled with so many land mines and sand traps that the truth is completely obscured. You’re liable to get sucked into the easy to understand and straightforward explanation with a simple solution; the others cause it, so get rid of the others to fix it. Problem solved right?
- OJFord 4y ago
  I don't think anyone's advocating for sticking your head in the sand, there's a huge difference between not actively seeking/'keeping up to date with' the news, and not noticing deterioration in your country until there is 'deep dysfunction at all levels'. Other people mention things, or you overhear things, you notice things, you walk past a newspaper stand, something references something, etc. I mostly disengaged with the news (having previously been a newspaper subscriber), apart from via HN really, and yet I was still (not via HN) aware of Russia's impending (as it was at the time) invasion of Ukraine. (And I do not live in Ukraine. I imagine it was very much more obvious there. A country in Ukraine's position - the threat of Russia on the border - is the sort of thing I mean that perhaps should make you pay more attention anyway with regard to your ex-pat vs. refugee concern. I live in the UK, and say what you want about whatever, a lot of excrement would have to hit a lot of fans before I would have any concern about becoming an ex-pat before being made a refugee. I (fortunately) do not have to read the news everyday to prevent that.)

bnralt 4y ago

Someone who ignores the news but spends 20 minutes looking at the Vote411 guide right before they vote is going to be more informed about who they're voting for than 99% of the population. If you've already decided that you aren't going to vote for Biden/Trump/whomever, spending an hour everyday for four year reading about how terrible they are and how right you are isn't going to change anything.