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This comes up everytime someone mentions the energy waste, so please answer one simple question: Which web3 services that are CURRENTLY online are not based on

by planb 4y ago

This comes up everytime someone mentions the energy waste, so please answer one simple question: Which web3 services that are CURRENTLY online are not based on proof of work?

sascha_sl 4y ago
It's not like they don't exist, they just have a lot of problems scaling to capacities that are in any way meaningful.
- bogomipz 4y ago
  Might you or someone else say what or where the bottlenecks are that prevent these from scaling?
  - redox99 4y ago
    The biggest challenge in general is that the approach of storing every transaction forever leads to petabytes of storage. And you can't expect a decentralized system to require petabytes of storage.
    - bogomipz 4y ago
      I apologize if this a naive question but Proof of work is also decentralized no? Why does Proof of Stake incur these scaling limitations but Proof of work does not?
      - coffeeblack 4y ago
        Both do.
        bogomipz 4y ago
        Can you elaborate? The person I was replying to indicated that the problem was one of storage however the only scalability problems I have seen written about have been around transaction processing.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_scalability_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_scalability_problem
    - MacroChip 4y ago
      Not every node has to store every transaction ever. Nodes can prune old state
4pkjai 4y ago
https://www.projectserum.com/ https://www.projectserum.com/ I'm not pro web3, but it didn't take much effort for me to find an example.
- LegitShady 4y ago
0x64 4y ago
Any Ethereum L2 that commits transaction bundles to the mainnet, plus anything on Binance's EVM chain, Cardano, Solana, Polkadot, Avalanche... They're all proof-of-stake or not based on PoW. And, Ethereum will transition to PoS by this year, ideally in August. All of the popular nine Ethereum execution/consensus clients should be ready for the merge, and mainnet has already been test-merged five times successfully. The first existing PoW testnet will be merged on the first week of June. After that, there's two testnets remaining that will be upgraded (Ropsten -> Goerli -> Sepolia), and then it's time for mainnet.
- coffeeblack 4y ago
  Interesting. Never thought that Eth will actually transition it’s consensus method. So that means there’s hope for Bitcoin to do the same some day.
  - DonHopkins 4y ago
- skocznymroczny 4y ago
  > Ethereum will transition to PoS by this year, ideally in August. I feel like every year is the year when Ethereum will finally transition to PoS, but it never happens.
  - 0x64 4y ago
    Name another year that has had feature-ready clients across the board, with a working merge transition mechanism implemented across all of them. The proof-of-stake chain we're merging to was launched in December of 2020, and has been running since, with almost 400'000 validators currently.
  - rekoil 4y ago
    The difference is that this time we actually have testnets already running the full Proof-of-Stake code, most recent news on this front is that the Ropsten testnet will merge on June 8th, that's a huge milestone considering Ropsten is like _the_ testnet if you're developing for the EVM, and is only slightly younger than the ETH mainnet itself.
coffeeblack 4y ago
Not an expert, but as far as I know IOTA and NANO as two examples.
ddjsn111 4y ago
Algorand, Cardano

by planb 4y ago

This comes up everytime someone mentions the energy waste, so please answer one simple question: Which web3 services that are CURRENTLY online are not based on proof of work?

sascha_sl 4y ago

It's not like they don't exist, they just have a lot of problems scaling to capacities that are in any way meaningful.

bogomipz 4y ago
Might you or someone else say what or where the bottlenecks are that prevent these from scaling?
- redox99 4y ago
  The biggest challenge in general is that the approach of storing every transaction forever leads to petabytes of storage. And you can't expect a decentralized system to require petabytes of storage.
  - bogomipz 4y ago
    I apologize if this a naive question but Proof of work is also decentralized no? Why does Proof of Stake incur these scaling limitations but Proof of work does not?
    - coffeeblack 4y ago
      Both do.
      - bogomipz 4y ago
        Can you elaborate? The person I was replying to indicated that the problem was one of storage however the only scalability problems I have seen written about have been around transaction processing.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_scalability_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_scalability_problem
  - MacroChip 4y ago
    Not every node has to store every transaction ever. Nodes can prune old state

4pkjai 4y ago

https://www.projectserum.com/ https://www.projectserum.com/ I'm not pro web3, but it didn't take much effort for me to find an example.

LegitShady 4y ago

0x64 4y ago

Any Ethereum L2 that commits transaction bundles to the mainnet, plus anything on Binance's EVM chain, Cardano, Solana, Polkadot, Avalanche... They're all proof-of-stake or not based on PoW. And, Ethereum will transition to PoS by this year, ideally in August. All of the popular nine Ethereum execution/consensus clients should be ready for the merge, and mainnet has already been test-merged five times successfully. The first existing PoW testnet will be merged on the first week of June. After that, there's two testnets remaining that will be upgraded (Ropsten -> Goerli -> Sepolia), and then it's time for mainnet.

coffeeblack 4y ago
Interesting. Never thought that Eth will actually transition it’s consensus method. So that means there’s hope for Bitcoin to do the same some day.
- DonHopkins 4y ago
skocznymroczny 4y ago
> Ethereum will transition to PoS by this year, ideally in August. I feel like every year is the year when Ethereum will finally transition to PoS, but it never happens.
- 0x64 4y ago
  Name another year that has had feature-ready clients across the board, with a working merge transition mechanism implemented across all of them. The proof-of-stake chain we're merging to was launched in December of 2020, and has been running since, with almost 400'000 validators currently.
- rekoil 4y ago
  The difference is that this time we actually have testnets already running the full Proof-of-Stake code, most recent news on this front is that the Ropsten testnet will merge on June 8th, that's a huge milestone considering Ropsten is like _the_ testnet if you're developing for the EVM, and is only slightly younger than the ETH mainnet itself.

coffeeblack 4y ago

Not an expert, but as far as I know IOTA and NANO as two examples.

ddjsn111 4y ago

Algorand, Cardano