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For more perspective, it's probably double what they would get for similar role in Europe, insane to me that it would require 'budgeting'. I also feel like the

For more perspective, it's probably double what they would get for similar role in Europe, insane to me that it would require 'budgeting'. I also feel like there will be some tension between increasing wages to be competitive with SWE salaries and the staggering tuition fees that students pay in America (orders of magnitude more than their EU counterparts in comparison).

dataflow 4y ago
> it's probably double what they would get for similar role in Europe Out of curiosity, how much do you believe it would be in Europe post-tax? In California this would be around $76k.
- sweezyjeezy 4y ago
  This is UK-centric, but this is more like what you would expect a tenured professor to make at a top university, full time teaching roles I think would be in the $25-$40k range post-tax. I know that salaries vary and especially in Switzerland and you can earn a fair bit more, but I think that range would be fairly typical/high for most of Europe.
  - dataflow 4y ago
    A couple of questions come to mind: - Are costs of living (including housing prices) comparable? - Is retirement comparable? In the US you need to try to save some of your money for retirement too; not sure if most European countries have a pension-based system or not, but that's another thing to account for.
    - qsort 4y ago
      As far as retirement goes, government-run pension systems are funded by taxation, so that's kind of a moot point if you're comparing pre-tax salaries. Also in most cases the government pension is not a living wage, so most people have private pension funds in addition to the mandatory public system.
    - searchableguy 4y ago
      > not sure if most European countries have a pension-based system or not, but that's another thing to account for. Even if they do have generous plan on paper, can they actually pay that 50 years in future? Most won't. I know people from southern EU who haven't received what they were promised for pension and live in poverty today. It's only worse for future pensioners while they tax 25-30% in social security with no cap from your salary for pension and healthcare (You still need private coverage on top). They also cut pension for people who saved money on side and accrued a livable amount ignoring their past contribution.
    - barry-cotter 4y ago
      > Are costs of living (including housing prices) comparable? No. The US is far and away the richest polity on Earth. Nowhere pays comparably. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household_final_consumption_expenditure_per_capita https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_househo...
cycomachead 4y ago
The fact of the matter is that it wouldn't even necessarily need to increase tuition. The UC system is a $50bn/yr enterprise. Lecturer salaries are a tiny amount, and really only about 20% or so of tuition money right now is directly attributed to instruction costs. If the University worked on a budgeting model that valued instruction, then I think the pay gap could be significantly reduced.

dataflow 4y ago

> it's probably double what they would get for similar role in Europe Out of curiosity, how much do you believe it would be in Europe post-tax? In California this would be around $76k.

sweezyjeezy 4y ago
This is UK-centric, but this is more like what you would expect a tenured professor to make at a top university, full time teaching roles I think would be in the $25-$40k range post-tax. I know that salaries vary and especially in Switzerland and you can earn a fair bit more, but I think that range would be fairly typical/high for most of Europe.
- dataflow 4y ago
  A couple of questions come to mind: - Are costs of living (including housing prices) comparable? - Is retirement comparable? In the US you need to try to save some of your money for retirement too; not sure if most European countries have a pension-based system or not, but that's another thing to account for.
  - qsort 4y ago
    As far as retirement goes, government-run pension systems are funded by taxation, so that's kind of a moot point if you're comparing pre-tax salaries. Also in most cases the government pension is not a living wage, so most people have private pension funds in addition to the mandatory public system.
  - searchableguy 4y ago
    > not sure if most European countries have a pension-based system or not, but that's another thing to account for. Even if they do have generous plan on paper, can they actually pay that 50 years in future? Most won't. I know people from southern EU who haven't received what they were promised for pension and live in poverty today. It's only worse for future pensioners while they tax 25-30% in social security with no cap from your salary for pension and healthcare (You still need private coverage on top). They also cut pension for people who saved money on side and accrued a livable amount ignoring their past contribution.
  - barry-cotter 4y ago
    > Are costs of living (including housing prices) comparable? No. The US is far and away the richest polity on Earth. Nowhere pays comparably. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household_final_consumption_expenditure_per_capita https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_househo...

cycomachead 4y ago

The fact of the matter is that it wouldn't even necessarily need to increase tuition. The UC system is a $50bn/yr enterprise. Lecturer salaries are a tiny amount, and really only about 20% or so of tuition money right now is directly attributed to instruction costs. If the University worked on a budgeting model that valued instruction, then I think the pay gap could be significantly reduced.