3 ms·

The "meals ($15/day)" think was a bit of a red flag for me. I think that americans are so used to very high salaries that they live in a very high salary way, w

The "meals ($15/day)" think was a bit of a red flag for me. I think that americans are so used to very high salaries that they live in a very high salary way, which includes eating out at the canteen every day. Btw this is what keeps americans in america, and also those that get jobs in america get stuck in america: the wages in academia, as you say when adjusted for cost of living, are far higher than almost anywhere else. The main exception being academic jobs in China which pay an absurd amount. I know a lot of professors from around the world who are "stuck" in america bc they are so used to wages like $107k a year. I think it's just a symptom of entitlement culture: "I'm doing an important and noble job so I should be able to live without even thinking about my spending"

stackbutterflow 4y ago
For the past few years I've read that salaries in China are extremely high in some industries (mainly tech but according to you academia too) but I've never seen any number. What "absurd amount" do academic jobs pay in China?
- bowsamic 4y ago
  It can be up to half a million dollars for professors, but with incredible benefits like massive offices and skipping lines at hospitals and things.
  - DeathArrow 4y ago
    Good for them. If you want to have the best people teaching others, you have to pay them as least as good as the industry.
    - bowsamic 4y ago
      No one needs to live like that. We should not allow either industry or academia to give such "luxuries"
jltsiren 4y ago
It's more complicated than that. American faculty salaries are high in absolute terms, but they don't adjust fully for the local cost of living. While you can live a comfortable life as an academic in an average area, good universities are often located in areas with high costs of living. (Or maybe it's the HCOL areas that are concentrated around good universities.) For example, good luck buying a house within a reasonable commuting distance as an academic in the Bay Area. When I was in Europe, industry salaries were ~50% higher than for comparable academic roles. When I arrived in the US a few years ago, I was surprised that the gap here was ~2x. Today the gap is approaching 3x, which makes scarce necessities such as housing really expensive.
- bowsamic 4y ago
  You wouldn't expect to buy a house on a single engineer's salary in Europe either. I still think it's far higher when adjusted for cost of living. I know personally a few people who stayed in the US and I think it's for that reason: moving back home you take a huge pay cut. Btw, here in Germany the industry salary for a senior engineer is 70k max, usually around 50k to 60k. The maximum academic salary is around 50k to 60k. That said, I know people call Germans "poor people in a rich country". Still, we are happy on this amount.
  - watwut 4y ago
    Yes, but you absolutely will be able to buy a flat as a single engineer. That would not be extraordinary at all. In many places, a house in America is what apartment in Europe is - the prevalent kind of housing supported by government policies, zonings and what not.
    - searchableguy 4y ago
      The size is not the same though. Not really comparable. You can have cheaper apartments for same sq in US outside of middle of the main cities which are bloated due to speculation and cheap mortgage.
    - q-big 4y ago
watwut 4y ago
I live in Europe and eating out at the canteen every day seems super normal to me. That is where majority of employed people have their lunch and that includes multiple countries I was in and lower paid jobs.
seoaeu 4y ago
> The "meals ($15/day)" think was a bit of a red flag for me. You’re underestimating the cost of food in the area. Per [0] and [1], even if you “select lower cost foods and all meals (including snacks) are prepared in the home”, a single adult will still spend about $11/day on food. [0]: https://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/41860 https://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/41860 [1]: https://livingwage.mit.edu/resources/Living-Wage-Users-Guide-Technical-Documentation-2022-05-10.pdf https://livingwage.mit.edu/resources/Living-Wage-Users-Guide...

stackbutterflow 4y ago

For the past few years I've read that salaries in China are extremely high in some industries (mainly tech but according to you academia too) but I've never seen any number. What "absurd amount" do academic jobs pay in China?

bowsamic 4y ago
It can be up to half a million dollars for professors, but with incredible benefits like massive offices and skipping lines at hospitals and things.
- DeathArrow 4y ago
  Good for them. If you want to have the best people teaching others, you have to pay them as least as good as the industry.
  - bowsamic 4y ago
    No one needs to live like that. We should not allow either industry or academia to give such "luxuries"

jltsiren 4y ago

It's more complicated than that. American faculty salaries are high in absolute terms, but they don't adjust fully for the local cost of living. While you can live a comfortable life as an academic in an average area, good universities are often located in areas with high costs of living. (Or maybe it's the HCOL areas that are concentrated around good universities.) For example, good luck buying a house within a reasonable commuting distance as an academic in the Bay Area. When I was in Europe, industry salaries were ~50% higher than for comparable academic roles. When I arrived in the US a few years ago, I was surprised that the gap here was ~2x. Today the gap is approaching 3x, which makes scarce necessities such as housing really expensive.

bowsamic 4y ago
You wouldn't expect to buy a house on a single engineer's salary in Europe either. I still think it's far higher when adjusted for cost of living. I know personally a few people who stayed in the US and I think it's for that reason: moving back home you take a huge pay cut. Btw, here in Germany the industry salary for a senior engineer is 70k max, usually around 50k to 60k. The maximum academic salary is around 50k to 60k. That said, I know people call Germans "poor people in a rich country". Still, we are happy on this amount.
- watwut 4y ago
  Yes, but you absolutely will be able to buy a flat as a single engineer. That would not be extraordinary at all. In many places, a house in America is what apartment in Europe is - the prevalent kind of housing supported by government policies, zonings and what not.
  - searchableguy 4y ago
    The size is not the same though. Not really comparable. You can have cheaper apartments for same sq in US outside of middle of the main cities which are bloated due to speculation and cheap mortgage.
  - q-big 4y ago

watwut 4y ago

I live in Europe and eating out at the canteen every day seems super normal to me. That is where majority of employed people have their lunch and that includes multiple countries I was in and lower paid jobs.

seoaeu 4y ago

> The "meals ($15/day)" think was a bit of a red flag for me. You’re underestimating the cost of food in the area. Per [0] and [1], even if you “select lower cost foods and all meals (including snacks) are prepared in the home”, a single adult will still spend about $11/day on food. [0]: https://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/41860 https://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/41860 [1]: https://livingwage.mit.edu/resources/Living-Wage-Users-Guide-Technical-Documentation-2022-05-10.pdf https://livingwage.mit.edu/resources/Living-Wage-Users-Guide...