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Can confirm. CS61A is a monster of a weeder course lol. If you don't have a background in programming/computer science and come in fresh with starry eyes, you

Can confirm. CS61A is a monster of a weeder course lol. If you don't have a background in programming/computer science and come in fresh with starry eyes, you better be a prodigy in learning, because it's a lot of material in a very short amount of time.

deleted 4y ago
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musicale 4y ago
I don't understand the rationale behind weeder courses. Shouldn't the introductory course sequence be designed to help all students master the material? What's the point of teaching a class poorly or not giving students enough time? Does Cal not have enough faculty to teach the follow-on courses if too many students are successful, so they have to prevent students from being successful?
- DantesKite 4y ago
  Yes. An introductory course should be designed that way to facilitate learning. They do have an introductory course before this one to get your feet wet but it isn’t a part of the degree requirements. Berkeley doesn’t have enough faculty for all the students who join. So part of it is just pragmatism. It also wants to maintain a certain level of prestige. The degree is fairly difficult to get.
  - lofatdairy 4y ago
    Honestly, if you don't know that many US universities suffer from the dual problems of overpopulation and under-investment in undergraduate pedagogy, the concept of weeder courses would seem wholly counterintuitive. It's pragmatic, but at the same time because it mostly benefits those who go into the class already knowing the content, so at some point you wonder if degrees are slowly just becoming glorified certification programs.
- deleted 4y ago
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- dataflow 4y ago
  > I don't understand the rationale behind weeder courses. When you have more people entering a major than you can handle, you end up having to weed some of them out. If that seems nonsensical, well, maybe it is, but (I think?) it's not like the same person is deciding to do both of these at once. One entity decides to overenroll, another one needs to find a way to compensate.
- q-big 4y ago
  > I don't understand the rationale behind weeder courses. Simple: the idea is that if you will likely fail the degree course, you should better fail fast to decrease your opportunity cost.
- pvg 4y ago
  It's not really a 'weeder course' because it's not a course for absolute beginners as the GP seems to suggest- the pre-reqs include some maths and programming. Back in the Scheme days, I think Brian Harvey used to say something to the effect of 'the pre-req is you know what mathematical induction is'.
- flappyeagle 4y ago
  There’s a short course called CS3 (at least when I went) that is designed to prep students with no prior programming experience for 61a. Berkeley is a generally place where all the resources are available to you, but you need to do your research and make wise choices.
  - wayne-li2 4y ago
    It was gone for a while but came back as CS 10 and it’s fantastic. See my earlier comment but I believe CS 10 should be made mandatory as a CS 101 course for all incoming CS/EECS majors.
- wayne-li2 4y ago
  61A is not a weeder course at all. It’s theoretically the CS 102 equivalent at Berkeley, with CS 10 being the CS 101 of Berkeley. The problem is that because CS 10 is not a required course, most freshmen that come into Berkeley, many who were top of their class in high school, think “hm I can just take 61A since it’s mandatory.” It’s not entirely their fault, since Berkeley doesn’t do a very good job of advertising the CS 10 course. It’s fairly new, and there’s still a stigma around it — that you’re “not as smart” if you need to take it. The result is you have almost 2000 students every semester, and many of them are inevitably going to struggle. I’ve sat in some CS 10 lectures (albeit while I was graduating with a CS degree and TAing CS 61B) and watched my friends do the homework. I didn’t have the luxury of taking CS 10. It’s a great way to learn how to think like a programmer. My personal recommendation is that every incoming Berkeley freshman going into CS should take CS 10, and it should be made mandatory. The CS degree only takes 3 years to complete all the required courses at a fairly leisurely pace, so there’s definitely room to add an extra requirement. Especially since now, the incredibly stupid EE16B has been dropped from the curriculum.
  - musicale 4y ago
    Great clarification and proposed solution for 61A. Why was EE16B bad? It looks like it covers some good material in terms of signals, systems, interfacing, and robotics? The labs look like fun also. Was it too EE or controls focused - maybe a CS-focused hardware interfacing and intro robotics class would be better?
    - wayne-li2 4y ago
      It’s a great course if you’re into that. We even have a major for it — EECS, which is electrical engineering and computer science. For pure CS majors, it should be an elective. But it was made mandatory until recently. The main complaint is that it’s intense and difficult - regular reports of spending an extraordinary time on the course per week. You can see how a lot of resentment builds up quickly.

deleted 4y ago

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musicale 4y ago

I don't understand the rationale behind weeder courses. Shouldn't the introductory course sequence be designed to help all students master the material? What's the point of teaching a class poorly or not giving students enough time? Does Cal not have enough faculty to teach the follow-on courses if too many students are successful, so they have to prevent students from being successful?

DantesKite 4y ago
Yes. An introductory course should be designed that way to facilitate learning. They do have an introductory course before this one to get your feet wet but it isn’t a part of the degree requirements. Berkeley doesn’t have enough faculty for all the students who join. So part of it is just pragmatism. It also wants to maintain a certain level of prestige. The degree is fairly difficult to get.
- lofatdairy 4y ago
  Honestly, if you don't know that many US universities suffer from the dual problems of overpopulation and under-investment in undergraduate pedagogy, the concept of weeder courses would seem wholly counterintuitive. It's pragmatic, but at the same time because it mostly benefits those who go into the class already knowing the content, so at some point you wonder if degrees are slowly just becoming glorified certification programs.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dataflow 4y ago
> I don't understand the rationale behind weeder courses. When you have more people entering a major than you can handle, you end up having to weed some of them out. If that seems nonsensical, well, maybe it is, but (I think?) it's not like the same person is deciding to do both of these at once. One entity decides to overenroll, another one needs to find a way to compensate.
q-big 4y ago
> I don't understand the rationale behind weeder courses. Simple: the idea is that if you will likely fail the degree course, you should better fail fast to decrease your opportunity cost.
pvg 4y ago
It's not really a 'weeder course' because it's not a course for absolute beginners as the GP seems to suggest- the pre-reqs include some maths and programming. Back in the Scheme days, I think Brian Harvey used to say something to the effect of 'the pre-req is you know what mathematical induction is'.
flappyeagle 4y ago
There’s a short course called CS3 (at least when I went) that is designed to prep students with no prior programming experience for 61a. Berkeley is a generally place where all the resources are available to you, but you need to do your research and make wise choices.
- wayne-li2 4y ago
  It was gone for a while but came back as CS 10 and it’s fantastic. See my earlier comment but I believe CS 10 should be made mandatory as a CS 101 course for all incoming CS/EECS majors.
wayne-li2 4y ago
61A is not a weeder course at all. It’s theoretically the CS 102 equivalent at Berkeley, with CS 10 being the CS 101 of Berkeley. The problem is that because CS 10 is not a required course, most freshmen that come into Berkeley, many who were top of their class in high school, think “hm I can just take 61A since it’s mandatory.” It’s not entirely their fault, since Berkeley doesn’t do a very good job of advertising the CS 10 course. It’s fairly new, and there’s still a stigma around it — that you’re “not as smart” if you need to take it. The result is you have almost 2000 students every semester, and many of them are inevitably going to struggle. I’ve sat in some CS 10 lectures (albeit while I was graduating with a CS degree and TAing CS 61B) and watched my friends do the homework. I didn’t have the luxury of taking CS 10. It’s a great way to learn how to think like a programmer. My personal recommendation is that every incoming Berkeley freshman going into CS should take CS 10, and it should be made mandatory. The CS degree only takes 3 years to complete all the required courses at a fairly leisurely pace, so there’s definitely room to add an extra requirement. Especially since now, the incredibly stupid EE16B has been dropped from the curriculum.
- musicale 4y ago
  Great clarification and proposed solution for 61A. Why was EE16B bad? It looks like it covers some good material in terms of signals, systems, interfacing, and robotics? The labs look like fun also. Was it too EE or controls focused - maybe a CS-focused hardware interfacing and intro robotics class would be better?
  - wayne-li2 4y ago
    It’s a great course if you’re into that. We even have a major for it — EECS, which is electrical engineering and computer science. For pure CS majors, it should be an elective. But it was made mandatory until recently. The main complaint is that it’s intense and difficult - regular reports of spending an extraordinary time on the course per week. You can see how a lot of resentment builds up quickly.