4 ms·

Redwood materials is run by the co founder and former cto of Tesla, presumably formed to head off the point where if BEV volume manufacturing ever does take off

Redwood materials is run by the co founder and former cto of Tesla, presumably formed to head off the point where if BEV volume manufacturing ever does take off at scale there is a fig leaf of 'recyclability'. BEVs are extremely heavy and rely on lightweight hard to recycle plastic and alloy body components to lighten kerb weight. Tires produce far more pollution than 'tailpipes' (BEVs just move the pollution somewhere else of course, they are wonderful for affluent cities). https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/regulations/pollution-from-tire-wear-1000-times-worse-than-exhaust-emissions.html https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/regulations... The other worrying aspect of BEV battery module recycling is fire risk- as the current generation of BEVs age we can expect to see more trapped energy thermal runaway events from faulty batteries. I'd say we have a way to go solving these realities before increasing BEV volume manufacture - hybrid cars are the best solution IMO for the foreseeable future especially given the perilous state of western world electric grid reliability

zamfi 4y ago
Ironically, this post recycles a bunch of tired old yarns about BEVs. I'm sure early ICEs were a disaster too, yet here we are. > fig leaf of 'recyclability' It's not a fig leaf if it's 95% recyclable for profit? > Tires produce far more pollution than 'tailpipes' (BEVs just move the pollution somewhere else of course, they are wonderful for affluent cities). ICEs have tires too? And BEVs -- even those powered by coal, will clean up as the grid cleans up. ICEs will never clean up. > as the current generation of BEVs age we can expect to see more trapped energy thermal runaway events from faulty batteries It's been a decade. We see very little of this. > hybrid cars are the best solution IMO The complaints you list are non-issues or already solved. Hybrid cars also have batteries and many also plug in and so would be subject to exactly the same complaints you list.
- olivermarks 4y ago
  > The 'complaints' you list are non-issues or already solved. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/dec/08/the-curse-of-white-oil-electric-vehicles-dirty-secret-lithium https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/dec/08/the-curse-of-wh... The curse of 'white oil': electric vehicles' dirty secret https://electrek.co/2022/03/21/heres-what-the-future-of-battery-recycling-is-going-to-look-like-for-ev-owners/ https://electrek.co/2022/03/21/heres-what-the-future-of-batt... 'EV batteries have a 10–13 year lifespan, so while they may not be ready to be recycled in large volumes just yet, we know they’re on the way. Companies worldwide are already investing in recycling plants to meet this demand. From our perspective, the biggest hurdle is figuring out how to create a system of shared collections across multiple original equipment manufacturers and recyclers for both cost and environmental efficiencies.' Lithium-Ion Battery Fires in Electric Vehicles - Safety Risks to Emergency Responders https://youtu.be/J6eS6JzBn0k https://youtu.be/J6eS6JzBn0k We are just beginning to grapple with some of the core issues should the BEV political sales onslaught and incentives succeed. This BEV bus blowing up in RATP Paris this month should give you some pause for thought, fortunately it wasn't full of people https://youtu.be/5r-yN8SugWM https://youtu.be/5r-yN8SugWM Multiple buses burnt as a result of a charging fire in Germany https://www.sustainable-bus.com/electric-bus/sbb-stuttgart-fire-electric-bus-depot/ https://www.sustainable-bus.com/electric-bus/sbb-stuttgart-f...
  - olivermarks 4y ago
    https://youtu.be/RFHvq-8np1o https://youtu.be/RFHvq-8np1o Gravitas Plus: The dark side of Electric Vehicles
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - zamfi 4y ago
    Please learn about confirmation bias. https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2022/05/19/ford-motor-company-recalls-expedition-navigator.html https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2022... ICEs are literally carrying explosives too. It also took time for them to become “safe”, and it’s still a work in progress. Doesn’t seem like you’re trying to really learn anything here. Maybe you think you already know everything. The world is moving on.

zamfi 4y ago

Ironically, this post recycles a bunch of tired old yarns about BEVs. I'm sure early ICEs were a disaster too, yet here we are. > fig leaf of 'recyclability' It's not a fig leaf if it's 95% recyclable for profit? > Tires produce far more pollution than 'tailpipes' (BEVs just move the pollution somewhere else of course, they are wonderful for affluent cities). ICEs have tires too? And BEVs -- even those powered by coal, will clean up as the grid cleans up. ICEs will never clean up. > as the current generation of BEVs age we can expect to see more trapped energy thermal runaway events from faulty batteries It's been a decade. We see very little of this. > hybrid cars are the best solution IMO The complaints you list are non-issues or already solved. Hybrid cars also have batteries and many also plug in and so would be subject to exactly the same complaints you list.

olivermarks 4y ago
> The 'complaints' you list are non-issues or already solved. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/dec/08/the-curse-of-white-oil-electric-vehicles-dirty-secret-lithium https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/dec/08/the-curse-of-wh... The curse of 'white oil': electric vehicles' dirty secret https://electrek.co/2022/03/21/heres-what-the-future-of-battery-recycling-is-going-to-look-like-for-ev-owners/ https://electrek.co/2022/03/21/heres-what-the-future-of-batt... 'EV batteries have a 10–13 year lifespan, so while they may not be ready to be recycled in large volumes just yet, we know they’re on the way. Companies worldwide are already investing in recycling plants to meet this demand. From our perspective, the biggest hurdle is figuring out how to create a system of shared collections across multiple original equipment manufacturers and recyclers for both cost and environmental efficiencies.' Lithium-Ion Battery Fires in Electric Vehicles - Safety Risks to Emergency Responders https://youtu.be/J6eS6JzBn0k https://youtu.be/J6eS6JzBn0k We are just beginning to grapple with some of the core issues should the BEV political sales onslaught and incentives succeed. This BEV bus blowing up in RATP Paris this month should give you some pause for thought, fortunately it wasn't full of people https://youtu.be/5r-yN8SugWM https://youtu.be/5r-yN8SugWM Multiple buses burnt as a result of a charging fire in Germany https://www.sustainable-bus.com/electric-bus/sbb-stuttgart-fire-electric-bus-depot/ https://www.sustainable-bus.com/electric-bus/sbb-stuttgart-f...
- olivermarks 4y ago
  https://youtu.be/RFHvq-8np1o https://youtu.be/RFHvq-8np1o Gravitas Plus: The dark side of Electric Vehicles
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- zamfi 4y ago
  Please learn about confirmation bias. https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2022/05/19/ford-motor-company-recalls-expedition-navigator.html https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2022... ICEs are literally carrying explosives too. It also took time for them to become “safe”, and it’s still a work in progress. Doesn’t seem like you’re trying to really learn anything here. Maybe you think you already know everything. The world is moving on.