4 ms·

My opinion—we are now attributing autism to kids now that in the 60s, 70s, and 80s would never have got that diagnosis. Used to be we called kids today who are

My opinion—we are now attributing autism to kids now that in the 60s, 70s, and 80s would never have got that diagnosis. Used to be we called kids today who are said to be “on the spectrum” words like “weird”, “troubled”, or “socially awkward”, and “nerdy”. Know many folks from back in the day, including a good friend I have known for over 4 decades.

jimmygrapes 4y ago
Don't forget "shy". I got saddled with this and all it's subsequent attempts to "break me out of [my] shell" and the vast majority of those attempts just drew unwanted praise/attention leading to me avoiding any situation where I'd be noticed for a very long time. It was not good for me when my parents crowed to anyone nearby if I had the temerity to respond to "hello" with "hello" -- to my parents it was a breakthrough, a thing to celebrate, but to me it was a struggle to fit in that was instantly crushed once their response drew attention. Took decades to fix.
- kcplate 4y ago
  Ahh yes, that was definitely adjective that was often used. “Quiet” is another.
ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
I just feel as if folks have been "on the spectrum," all along, but people are looking for it, these days. Nonverbal autistic people are still quite rare. I know a few (actually, I know their parents, and, through them, their children). Tough gig. High-functioning autistic folks can actually have advantages. We can be socially awkward (usually, abruptness, and nonreactive to emotional stimulus). It would easily be brushed off as "He's just a bit odd." Doesn't seem to be an actual disability; especially if the person is a wizard at some skill. In my case, I'm a really, really good programmer. I can map out a fairly complex system map in my head. It helps me to avoid writing things down, which affords flexibility. I am also anal about Quality and formatting. Most of y'all would probably laugh at my code. An ex-employee of mine was absolutely jaw-droppingly good. He regularly stunned the scientists and engineers in Tokyo, and he had a high school diploma.
- kcplate 4y ago
  > Nonverbal autistic people are still quite rare. I know a few (actually, I know their parents, and, through them, their children). Tough gig. Know a guy who’s son is non-verbal, definitely a tough gig. My friend is highly creative as a writer, and definitely anal in terms of rewriting until a piece is perfect in word choice, tempo, etc. He struggled his entire life with close emotional connections, only after a divorce sought some introspective counseling which led to his understanding of where he sat on the spectrum. When he told me, it was like blinders were lifted and I spun back through dozens of interactions that we had had over the years and it was an *of course!* moment. Made perfect sense in hindsight.
- bitwize 4y ago
  Well, there's "just a bit odd" as in Dan Aykroyd and there's "just a bit odd" as in Christian Weston Chandler. Even within the verbal "high functioning" band, the autism spectrum is still a spectrum. And it really is a social disability, not a superpower. We really only display advantages in things we train ourselves to be proficient in, which tend to he things that do not bore or frustrate us because of other people's expectations of us. I got proficient in computers because a computer was host to a tiny world in which I had absolute control. But a sufficiently motivated allistic person could get just as proficient in this field as I. In fact the advantage has swung back toward allistics because the MBAs have taken over computing as a profession, and through Agile, Scrum, and other methodologies and "best practices" enforce it as something to be practiced on their terms.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
    That’s why I’m working on my own, these days, I guess. Not so sure “sufficiently motivated” folks could just learn this. I have what I call my “fugue state.” It’s a fairly “timeless,” focused, self-centered state, where “everything flows.” I get a lot done, when in this state, but many hours can go by, and it’s exhausting. I couldn’t describe what I’m doing, to save my life. In fact, the best way to break it, is to ask me what I’m doing. I stutter, grope for words, mumble, etc. I can write detailed, articulate code documentation, explaining it, but I can’t verbalize it. I sound like a blithering idiot. I would not do well, with pair programming. I also get pissed when I’m yanked from that state. I get quite cranky. Lasts for about half an hour, afterwards. That kind of thing makes it hard to play well with others. When I was a manager, I didn’t have that issue.
Flankk 4y ago
If you had read the article you would know that's exactly what it says. The definition has broadened. The pharmaceutical industry has a perverse incentive to medicate everyone. They are the invisible hand destroying America. They profit off of autism, ADHD, obesity, anxiety, and depression. The opioid epidemic is the tip of the iceberg.
- DFHippie 4y ago
  > They are the invisible hand destroying America. Eh, there are a lot of hands involved in that effort. American is being attacked by an invisible hekatoncheiros. (Actually, it's more an an emperor's new clothes thing. Everyone can see it.)
- elliekelly 4y ago
  Please forgive my ignorance but is autism treated with medication?
  - lthornberry 4y ago
    Not directly, no. A range of meds are prescribed for specific manifestations of autism, such as aggression or self-injury, though none are broadly effective. If there’s an industry making money here, it’s ABA therapy, not pharma.
  - stubish 4y ago
    Certainly the debilitating effects are treated with medication, for example the various anxieties that often manifest. I don't know if medication is being used to treat the underlying causes of particular autism cases.
  - Flankk 4y ago
    The seven most frequently prescribed classes of psychoactive drugs were antidepressants, stimulants, tranquilizers/antipsychotics, anticonvulsants, hypotensive agents, anxiolytic/sedative/hypnotics, and benzodiazepines. The data on other relevant diagnoses indicate that children and youth are frequently treated with medication under an autism-spectrum diagnosis, even though the target symptoms may be commonly associated with other mental disorders. Age data indicate that about 70% of children with autism-spectrum disorders age 8 yr and up receive some form of psychoactive medication in a given year. https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/cap.2006.17303 https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/cap.2006.17303
bitwize 4y ago
A UCLA psychologist told my parents in the late 70s that I had "autistic tendencies" when they sought a second opinion after the Texas psychologists concluded I was just stupid. I guess I lucked out, because that's about as close as you could get to an "on the spectrum" diagnosis before Lorna Wing's work recognizing the significance of Asperger's syndrome.
IIAOPSW 4y ago
Yeah but those are all lay person vernacular insults. Now we have a scientifically shaped cudgel with which to institutionally beat the weird, troubled, socially awkward and nerdy. All the while claiming to be helping them with their "disability".
- fn-mote 4y ago
  Can you try to make this into a point? It sounds like you are saying an autism diagnosis does not help people, and also possibly that people who are not "actually autistic" are being labeled that way when they are actually socially awkward/nerdy/??. I don't actually know how being labeled autistic is hurting people... I see a few people who it really helps and many whose results seem unaffected by the label, for better or worse. Source: colleagues on the spectrum (1 good result, 1 getting by, others no + or -), and a friend's child on the spectrum has absolutely, unquestionably benefitted. I'm going to infer you have some anecdote about this... it's the semi-anonymous internet maybe it would be productive to share it so people see the other side.
- lthornberry 4y ago
  My anecdata is that being labeled autistic is actually way better than being labeled weird/awkward/whatever.
AzzieElbab 4y ago
What if we start count from the year 2k?

jimmygrapes 4y ago

Don't forget "shy". I got saddled with this and all it's subsequent attempts to "break me out of [my] shell" and the vast majority of those attempts just drew unwanted praise/attention leading to me avoiding any situation where I'd be noticed for a very long time. It was not good for me when my parents crowed to anyone nearby if I had the temerity to respond to "hello" with "hello" -- to my parents it was a breakthrough, a thing to celebrate, but to me it was a struggle to fit in that was instantly crushed once their response drew attention. Took decades to fix.

kcplate 4y ago
Ahh yes, that was definitely adjective that was often used. “Quiet” is another.

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago

I just feel as if folks have been "on the spectrum," all along, but people are looking for it, these days. Nonverbal autistic people are still quite rare. I know a few (actually, I know their parents, and, through them, their children). Tough gig. High-functioning autistic folks can actually have advantages. We can be socially awkward (usually, abruptness, and nonreactive to emotional stimulus). It would easily be brushed off as "He's just a bit odd." Doesn't seem to be an actual disability; especially if the person is a wizard at some skill. In my case, I'm a really, really good programmer. I can map out a fairly complex system map in my head. It helps me to avoid writing things down, which affords flexibility. I am also anal about Quality and formatting. Most of y'all would probably laugh at my code. An ex-employee of mine was absolutely jaw-droppingly good. He regularly stunned the scientists and engineers in Tokyo, and he had a high school diploma.

kcplate 4y ago
> Nonverbal autistic people are still quite rare. I know a few (actually, I know their parents, and, through them, their children). Tough gig. Know a guy who’s son is non-verbal, definitely a tough gig. My friend is highly creative as a writer, and definitely anal in terms of rewriting until a piece is perfect in word choice, tempo, etc. He struggled his entire life with close emotional connections, only after a divorce sought some introspective counseling which led to his understanding of where he sat on the spectrum. When he told me, it was like blinders were lifted and I spun back through dozens of interactions that we had had over the years and it was an *of course!* moment. Made perfect sense in hindsight.
bitwize 4y ago
Well, there's "just a bit odd" as in Dan Aykroyd and there's "just a bit odd" as in Christian Weston Chandler. Even within the verbal "high functioning" band, the autism spectrum is still a spectrum. And it really is a social disability, not a superpower. We really only display advantages in things we train ourselves to be proficient in, which tend to he things that do not bore or frustrate us because of other people's expectations of us. I got proficient in computers because a computer was host to a tiny world in which I had absolute control. But a sufficiently motivated allistic person could get just as proficient in this field as I. In fact the advantage has swung back toward allistics because the MBAs have taken over computing as a profession, and through Agile, Scrum, and other methodologies and "best practices" enforce it as something to be practiced on their terms.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  That’s why I’m working on my own, these days, I guess. Not so sure “sufficiently motivated” folks could just learn this. I have what I call my “fugue state.” It’s a fairly “timeless,” focused, self-centered state, where “everything flows.” I get a lot done, when in this state, but many hours can go by, and it’s exhausting. I couldn’t describe what I’m doing, to save my life. In fact, the best way to break it, is to ask me what I’m doing. I stutter, grope for words, mumble, etc. I can write detailed, articulate code documentation, explaining it, but I can’t verbalize it. I sound like a blithering idiot. I would not do well, with pair programming. I also get pissed when I’m yanked from that state. I get quite cranky. Lasts for about half an hour, afterwards. That kind of thing makes it hard to play well with others. When I was a manager, I didn’t have that issue.

Flankk 4y ago

If you had read the article you would know that's exactly what it says. The definition has broadened. The pharmaceutical industry has a perverse incentive to medicate everyone. They are the invisible hand destroying America. They profit off of autism, ADHD, obesity, anxiety, and depression. The opioid epidemic is the tip of the iceberg.

DFHippie 4y ago
> They are the invisible hand destroying America. Eh, there are a lot of hands involved in that effort. American is being attacked by an invisible hekatoncheiros. (Actually, it's more an an emperor's new clothes thing. Everyone can see it.)
elliekelly 4y ago
Please forgive my ignorance but is autism treated with medication?
- lthornberry 4y ago
  Not directly, no. A range of meds are prescribed for specific manifestations of autism, such as aggression or self-injury, though none are broadly effective. If there’s an industry making money here, it’s ABA therapy, not pharma.
- stubish 4y ago
  Certainly the debilitating effects are treated with medication, for example the various anxieties that often manifest. I don't know if medication is being used to treat the underlying causes of particular autism cases.
- Flankk 4y ago
  The seven most frequently prescribed classes of psychoactive drugs were antidepressants, stimulants, tranquilizers/antipsychotics, anticonvulsants, hypotensive agents, anxiolytic/sedative/hypnotics, and benzodiazepines. The data on other relevant diagnoses indicate that children and youth are frequently treated with medication under an autism-spectrum diagnosis, even though the target symptoms may be commonly associated with other mental disorders. Age data indicate that about 70% of children with autism-spectrum disorders age 8 yr and up receive some form of psychoactive medication in a given year. https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/cap.2006.17303 https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/cap.2006.17303

bitwize 4y ago

A UCLA psychologist told my parents in the late 70s that I had "autistic tendencies" when they sought a second opinion after the Texas psychologists concluded I was just stupid. I guess I lucked out, because that's about as close as you could get to an "on the spectrum" diagnosis before Lorna Wing's work recognizing the significance of Asperger's syndrome.

IIAOPSW 4y ago

Yeah but those are all lay person vernacular insults. Now we have a scientifically shaped cudgel with which to institutionally beat the weird, troubled, socially awkward and nerdy. All the while claiming to be helping them with their "disability".

fn-mote 4y ago
Can you try to make this into a point? It sounds like you are saying an autism diagnosis does not help people, and also possibly that people who are not "actually autistic" are being labeled that way when they are actually socially awkward/nerdy/??. I don't actually know how being labeled autistic is hurting people... I see a few people who it really helps and many whose results seem unaffected by the label, for better or worse. Source: colleagues on the spectrum (1 good result, 1 getting by, others no + or -), and a friend's child on the spectrum has absolutely, unquestionably benefitted. I'm going to infer you have some anecdote about this... it's the semi-anonymous internet maybe it would be productive to share it so people see the other side.
lthornberry 4y ago
My anecdata is that being labeled autistic is actually way better than being labeled weird/awkward/whatever.

AzzieElbab 4y ago

What if we start count from the year 2k?