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Although that affidavit is still a problem for some. Both German and Australian citizens cannot revoke their human rights and as such cannot put things into pub

by boyter 4y ago

Although that affidavit is still a problem for some. Both German and Australian citizens cannot revoke their human rights and as such cannot put things into public domain. Hence cannot ever contribute to sqlite. This may be seen as advantageous however.

ThunderSizzle 4y ago
Does this mean they can't contribute to open-source MIT-equivalent licensed code bases? As that's basically giving that code to the public domain, is it not?
- capableweb 4y ago
  "Public Domain Is Not Open Source | Open Source Initiative" - https://opensource.org/node/878 https://opensource.org/node/878
  - tzs 4y ago
    That article's argument is that you can't be sure that you have rights to use public domain software because there are legal differences in how public domain works in different countries. I do not find this argument very persuasive. Other aspects and of IP law and of licensing related law are different in different countries too. If I find some software purportedly from a developer in Wheretheheckisthatistan that says it is under some OSI-approved license all that tells me is that the developer (probably) tried to license it under that license. But I have no idea if they actually succeeded in doing so--for instance maybe their employment agreement for their day job says it belongs to the employer and they are in a country where such agreements are enforceable.
- boyter 4y ago
  No. Explicitly licensing things is fine as you still retain copyright, but are allowing others to use and modify.
capableweb 4y ago
I'm sure there are other countries that have restrictions towards who can contribute to US-based projects as well. Unfortunate yes, but hardly the fault of SQLite. I'm curious about the "citizens cannot revoke their human rights and as such cannot put things into public domain" part of your comment. How does putting something into public domain revoke anything regarding your human rights?
- boyter 4y ago
  I am not a lawyer but my understanding is that copyright is considered a human right, hence being non revokable for citizens in Australia and Germany. Hence you must explicitly licence to allow reuse. It's why personally if I want something as free as possible I dual licence under Unlicense and MIT with the user able to take whichever suits them best.
mhio 4y ago
What's the human right angle on me assigning the copyright of my work to the public domain?
- boyter 4y ago
  In another comment, but my understanding is that you cannot revoke your copyright over anything you create, but can make it free for use by others. Hence you must licence appropriately.
robocat 4y ago
In https://www.sqlite.org/copyright.html https://www.sqlite.org/copyright.html they specifically talk about how to use SQLite in a jurisdiction that does not recognize the public domain. And major projects like Android and Safari use SQLite globally, so clearly the legal risks are limited. Any legal risk, and Hwaci can avoid employing people from problematic jurisdictions (from their POV). I suspect there is a workaround anyway: Hwaci can require any German developers to assign copyright of code to Hwaci, and then Hwaci can put that code into the public domain. Regardless, Hwaci mention that SQLite is “Open-Source, not Open-Contribution” and also say “the project does not accept patches. If you would like to suggest a change and you include a patch as a proof-of-concept, that would be great. However, please do not be offended if we rewrite your patch from scratch.”.
- boyter 4y ago
  100% you can use it even in Germany. I was more pointing out that for some people contributing to public domain software or any work is problematic.

by boyter 4y ago

ThunderSizzle 4y ago

Does this mean they can't contribute to open-source MIT-equivalent licensed code bases? As that's basically giving that code to the public domain, is it not?

capableweb 4y ago
"Public Domain Is Not Open Source | Open Source Initiative" - https://opensource.org/node/878 https://opensource.org/node/878
- tzs 4y ago
  That article's argument is that you can't be sure that you have rights to use public domain software because there are legal differences in how public domain works in different countries. I do not find this argument very persuasive. Other aspects and of IP law and of licensing related law are different in different countries too. If I find some software purportedly from a developer in Wheretheheckisthatistan that says it is under some OSI-approved license all that tells me is that the developer (probably) tried to license it under that license. But I have no idea if they actually succeeded in doing so--for instance maybe their employment agreement for their day job says it belongs to the employer and they are in a country where such agreements are enforceable.
boyter 4y ago
No. Explicitly licensing things is fine as you still retain copyright, but are allowing others to use and modify.

capableweb 4y ago

I'm sure there are other countries that have restrictions towards who can contribute to US-based projects as well. Unfortunate yes, but hardly the fault of SQLite. I'm curious about the "citizens cannot revoke their human rights and as such cannot put things into public domain" part of your comment. How does putting something into public domain revoke anything regarding your human rights?

boyter 4y ago
I am not a lawyer but my understanding is that copyright is considered a human right, hence being non revokable for citizens in Australia and Germany. Hence you must explicitly licence to allow reuse. It's why personally if I want something as free as possible I dual licence under Unlicense and MIT with the user able to take whichever suits them best.

mhio 4y ago

What's the human right angle on me assigning the copyright of my work to the public domain?

boyter 4y ago
In another comment, but my understanding is that you cannot revoke your copyright over anything you create, but can make it free for use by others. Hence you must licence appropriately.

robocat 4y ago

In https://www.sqlite.org/copyright.html https://www.sqlite.org/copyright.html they specifically talk about how to use SQLite in a jurisdiction that does not recognize the public domain. And major projects like Android and Safari use SQLite globally, so clearly the legal risks are limited. Any legal risk, and Hwaci can avoid employing people from problematic jurisdictions (from their POV). I suspect there is a workaround anyway: Hwaci can require any German developers to assign copyright of code to Hwaci, and then Hwaci can put that code into the public domain. Regardless, Hwaci mention that SQLite is “Open-Source, not Open-Contribution” and also say “the project does not accept patches. If you would like to suggest a change and you include a patch as a proof-of-concept, that would be great. However, please do not be offended if we rewrite your patch from scratch.”.

boyter 4y ago
100% you can use it even in Germany. I was more pointing out that for some people contributing to public domain software or any work is problematic.