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that exercising interest in democracy means voting. we are talking about voting systems. Arrow's theorem is the definitive answer to "no voting system is perf

that exercising interest in democracy means voting. we are talking about voting systems. Arrow's theorem is the definitive answer to "no voting system is perfect so no voting system will solve political problems" Liquid democracy, being simply another way to vote, won't solve any political issue by itself. Because politics is a social problem.

avgcorrection 4y ago
> Because politics is a social problem. I agree. It’s weird to me though that you would use pure math to prove that point. I have always talked about democracy here, not specifically the liquid kind. Not sure what your conclusions are about democracy.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  you talked about "exercising interest" in democracy. that particular definition, together with other similar ones like "exercising your rights" "expression of people will" etc etc they all mean the same thing: voting. There can be many forms of democracy but they all revolve about the same crucial moment which is casting a vote, all equal, all secret, everyone got one chance of doing it or not doing it, going or not going. That's the best approximation we have found over the centuries to make it as just as possible. If we change that it is proven that things won't change for the better, but it's not impossible that they might change for the worse.
  - avgcorrection 4y ago
    > There can be many forms of democracy but they all revolve about the same crucial moment which is casting a vote, No.[1] This voting fetishization is bizarre. It’s like insisting that the essence of being a soldier is about wearing olive drab, and then making a bunch of theories about the viability of wearing olive drab all the time. My original comment didn’t even mention the word “vote” and yet here we are, way down in this subthread, with you having wasted my time because you thought I was talking about something else (and making a point that still eludes me). Thanks for that. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31471536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31471536
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > My original comment didn’t even mention the word “vote” exercising interest means voting, when referred to modern democracies (past 200 years more or less). there is no fetish about votes, it is simply what you talked about. Of course there were no votes in Greek democracies three thousands years ago, but those days have long gone.

avgcorrection 4y ago

> Because politics is a social problem. I agree. It’s weird to me though that you would use pure math to prove that point. I have always talked about democracy here, not specifically the liquid kind. Not sure what your conclusions are about democracy.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
you talked about "exercising interest" in democracy. that particular definition, together with other similar ones like "exercising your rights" "expression of people will" etc etc they all mean the same thing: voting. There can be many forms of democracy but they all revolve about the same crucial moment which is casting a vote, all equal, all secret, everyone got one chance of doing it or not doing it, going or not going. That's the best approximation we have found over the centuries to make it as just as possible. If we change that it is proven that things won't change for the better, but it's not impossible that they might change for the worse.
- avgcorrection 4y ago
  > There can be many forms of democracy but they all revolve about the same crucial moment which is casting a vote, No.[1] This voting fetishization is bizarre. It’s like insisting that the essence of being a soldier is about wearing olive drab, and then making a bunch of theories about the viability of wearing olive drab all the time. My original comment didn’t even mention the word “vote” and yet here we are, way down in this subthread, with you having wasted my time because you thought I was talking about something else (and making a point that still eludes me). Thanks for that. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31471536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31471536
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > My original comment didn’t even mention the word “vote” exercising interest means voting, when referred to modern democracies (past 200 years more or less). there is no fetish about votes, it is simply what you talked about. Of course there were no votes in Greek democracies three thousands years ago, but those days have long gone.