4 ms·

It is so weird to see Americans talking about guns... When you live in a society without guns everywhere, the notion that law-abiding citizens don't need and d

It is so weird to see Americans talking about guns... When you live in a society without guns everywhere, the notion that law-abiding citizens don't need and don't want guns is just plain obvious, like "water is wet and the wind blows". Civilized life is life with low crime so you don't need guns. They're far more trouble than solution. But talk an American talk about gun control and they go full crazy on "socialist tyranny" and "from my cold dead hands!". They just can't grasp it.

verisimi 4y ago
I'm not American and resent that individuals cannot arm themselves, if they choose to. We have no defence against the government and its agents. You may think the government is benign - I do not. I could ignore government a lot easier, and its abilities to write special laws to sanction it doing whatever it likes, if I had the ability to defend myself. So, you and I had better convince ourselves that the government really does have our interests at heart, because we have no other options.
- diego_moita 4y ago
  > We have no defence against the government and its agents. Oh, I am sorry to hear that. In both my native (Portugal) and adoptive (Canada) country we do have defences: votes, freedom of assembly and speech, passports,... They're far more effective than guns.
  - verisimi 4y ago
    You can choose red or blue and someone to represent you for 4-5 years (this is not democracy, its 'representative democracy' - the people choose nothing); you can't choose not to follow government edicts - eg shutting down schools, the economy; you do not have freedom of assembly (in Canada you can have your bank account frozen); in Canada you cannot travel by plane or train if you are not vaccinated; passports are a government id - not sure why this is a benefit to you; etc. But, as long as the governance system has you convinced its a good thing, it's all fine.
    - 29083011397778 4y ago
      How is a gun a defence for any of the above? Do you think shooting a cop would have left the freedom convoy better off?
jonhohle 4y ago
It’s so weird to see non-Americans with no concept of American history criticize American gun rights or comprehend the foundational principles of an armed citizenry. Cliff’s notes: gun rights are not as much about personal self defense as they are national self defense. They allow the people to protect the country and protect themselves from the country (ie government).
- throw0101a 4y ago
  > […] protect themselves from the country (ie government). Non-violent civil resistance has greater odds of working than violent resistance. Over the last century movements that used violence only succeeded about 25% of the time, and generally resulted in autocratic regimes when they did. Non-violent movements succeeded about twice as often, and generally resulted in non-autocratic systems afterwards (main exception probably being Iran). See the book Why civil resistance works by Chenoweth which does a review of the literature.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
GravitasFailure 4y ago
I get where you're coming from, but have you met our wildlife? Even the notoriously anti gun Canadians will make exceptions for polar bears and moose.
- diego_moita 4y ago
  Well, yes. I am an European living in Alberta, Canada. Never met wolves, but did meet a lot of bison, moose, elk and even one black bear. But a disclaimer, I was carrying a bear spray/pepper spray can. You might think that qualifies as a gun...
  - vt85 4y ago
pixl97 4y ago
You talk about America like it is civilized... we fight being civil tooth and nail. We're a country that enslaved people up until the 1930s (don't think that it ended in the 1850s, and it's still legal to enslave prisoners).
- Clubber 4y ago
  >We're a country that enslaved people up until the 1930s How? >it's still legal to enslave prisoners You mean other countries just let prisoners go free, or what are you getting at? Other countries don't have work farms for prisoners?
  - rascul 4y ago
    > >We're a country that enslaved people up until the 1930s > How? USA had slave soldiers up to 1973. And it could happen again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_Sta...
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Clubber 4y ago
      Don't forget jury duty, getting a K-12 education, doing chores, and paying taxes. All forced labor, which can loosely be defined as "slavery," if you bend the meaning of the word far enough.

verisimi 4y ago

I'm not American and resent that individuals cannot arm themselves, if they choose to. We have no defence against the government and its agents. You may think the government is benign - I do not. I could ignore government a lot easier, and its abilities to write special laws to sanction it doing whatever it likes, if I had the ability to defend myself. So, you and I had better convince ourselves that the government really does have our interests at heart, because we have no other options.

diego_moita 4y ago
> We have no defence against the government and its agents. Oh, I am sorry to hear that. In both my native (Portugal) and adoptive (Canada) country we do have defences: votes, freedom of assembly and speech, passports,... They're far more effective than guns.
- verisimi 4y ago
  You can choose red or blue and someone to represent you for 4-5 years (this is not democracy, its 'representative democracy' - the people choose nothing); you can't choose not to follow government edicts - eg shutting down schools, the economy; you do not have freedom of assembly (in Canada you can have your bank account frozen); in Canada you cannot travel by plane or train if you are not vaccinated; passports are a government id - not sure why this is a benefit to you; etc. But, as long as the governance system has you convinced its a good thing, it's all fine.
  - 29083011397778 4y ago
    How is a gun a defence for any of the above? Do you think shooting a cop would have left the freedom convoy better off?

jonhohle 4y ago

It’s so weird to see non-Americans with no concept of American history criticize American gun rights or comprehend the foundational principles of an armed citizenry. Cliff’s notes: gun rights are not as much about personal self defense as they are national self defense. They allow the people to protect the country and protect themselves from the country (ie government).

throw0101a 4y ago
> […] protect themselves from the country (ie government). Non-violent civil resistance has greater odds of working than violent resistance. Over the last century movements that used violence only succeeded about 25% of the time, and generally resulted in autocratic regimes when they did. Non-violent movements succeeded about twice as often, and generally resulted in non-autocratic systems afterwards (main exception probably being Iran). See the book Why civil resistance works by Chenoweth which does a review of the literature.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

GravitasFailure 4y ago

I get where you're coming from, but have you met our wildlife? Even the notoriously anti gun Canadians will make exceptions for polar bears and moose.

diego_moita 4y ago
Well, yes. I am an European living in Alberta, Canada. Never met wolves, but did meet a lot of bison, moose, elk and even one black bear. But a disclaimer, I was carrying a bear spray/pepper spray can. You might think that qualifies as a gun...
- vt85 4y ago

pixl97 4y ago

You talk about America like it is civilized... we fight being civil tooth and nail. We're a country that enslaved people up until the 1930s (don't think that it ended in the 1850s, and it's still legal to enslave prisoners).

Clubber 4y ago
>We're a country that enslaved people up until the 1930s How? >it's still legal to enslave prisoners You mean other countries just let prisoners go free, or what are you getting at? Other countries don't have work farms for prisoners?
- rascul 4y ago
  > >We're a country that enslaved people up until the 1930s > How? USA had slave soldiers up to 1973. And it could happen again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_Sta...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Clubber 4y ago
    Don't forget jury duty, getting a K-12 education, doing chores, and paying taxes. All forced labor, which can loosely be defined as "slavery," if you bend the meaning of the word far enough.