4 ms·

> to filter out the riffraff who can’t afford larger homes. When I was poor, I just wanted a home I could afford in a safe neighborhood. Now that I have money,

> to filter out the riffraff who can’t afford larger homes. When I was poor, I just wanted a home I could afford in a safe neighborhood. Now that I have money, I just want poor people to be homeless. /mockery

rayiner 4y ago
Residential zoning is just so wrong. It’s trendy on the left to say it’s “racist” and it is that, but it’s also classist and elitist and WASP supremacist (e.g. banning multigenerational families, which are common among both Hispanics and lower-tier whites). I live in a pre-zoning code suburb in Maryland. The current minimum lot size is 20,000 square feet. Our house and most of the neighboring houses are on 2,900 square foot lots. At least on this side of the neighborhood, nobody tattles on each other for doing unpermitted work. The result is real diversity and a tightly packed community. (Though as housing prices increase, our neighborhood, being so close to DC, is under threat from PMCs.)
- spacemanmatt 4y ago
  IIRC, we call it racist without the scare-quotes because of it's disproportional effect. That's how that word works.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    > That's how that word works. Incorrect. In ordinary usage, “racism” means prejudice based on race. There are efforts by some to muddy its meaning, to encompass both racial prejudice and “disproportionate effect,” but that’s not the common usage.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > In ordinary usage, “racism” means prejudice based on race. There are efforts by some to muddy its meaning, to encompass both racial prejudice and “disproportionate effect,” but that’s not the common usage. Thank you. For some reason I've never been able to explain it so succinctly when two people I respect get into an obviously semantic argument around something being or not being racist and then getting lost in the weeds of the intentions of the long dead.
      - tptacek 4y ago
        Just so we're all clear, the racism of prohibitions on intergenerational housing --- which is what BLM is talking about when they talk about the "nuclear family" or whatever it is they said to spook the normies --- is racism, not disproportionate impact. Single family zoning was designed to keep specific ethnicities out of "white" neighborhoods. It's not an accident.
        spacemanmatt 4y ago
        Do you think that there is a large gap between prejudice and disproportionate effect? I'm just curious how this break down for you.
        tptacek 4y ago
        I don't know, I'm just saying these policies were motivated directly, maybe exclusively by racial animus.
        JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > I'm just saying these policies were motivated directly, maybe exclusively by racial animus We have similar motivations to thank for our cabaret laws in New York, which literally fined restaurants without the proper licences if their patrons danced.
    - spacemanmatt 4y ago
      > In ordinary usage Sounds like you are referring to a connotative value which is common to a subculture of English speakers. I learned to use the dictionary definition from sociology 101.
      - rayiner 4y ago
        You definitely didn’t learn the “dictionary definition” in any sociology class, but rather a redefinition of the term developed in social sciences circles that’s used mainly there. https://www.google.com/search?q=racism&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari https://www.google.com/search?q=racism&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=... > noun prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized. "a program to combat racism"
        spacemanmatt 4y ago
        That's nice that you think the dictionary definition is an newer academic construct
        rayiner 4y ago
        I’m not sure I understand your point. The dictionary definition, as I quoted above, refers to prejudice. Is that what you learned in sociology?
        spacemanmatt 4y ago
        Yes, prejudice was discussed, but prejudice is not descriptive of the social force that we talked about in sociology.
        spacemanmatt 4y ago
        The definition you quoted included discrimination which is another umbrella term like disproportionate effect. Why is it so hard to understand that racism is what racism does?
deleted 4y ago
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rayiner 4y ago

Residential zoning is just so wrong. It’s trendy on the left to say it’s “racist” and it is that, but it’s also classist and elitist and WASP supremacist (e.g. banning multigenerational families, which are common among both Hispanics and lower-tier whites). I live in a pre-zoning code suburb in Maryland. The current minimum lot size is 20,000 square feet. Our house and most of the neighboring houses are on 2,900 square foot lots. At least on this side of the neighborhood, nobody tattles on each other for doing unpermitted work. The result is real diversity and a tightly packed community. (Though as housing prices increase, our neighborhood, being so close to DC, is under threat from PMCs.)

spacemanmatt 4y ago
IIRC, we call it racist without the scare-quotes because of it's disproportional effect. That's how that word works.
- rayiner 4y ago
  > That's how that word works. Incorrect. In ordinary usage, “racism” means prejudice based on race. There are efforts by some to muddy its meaning, to encompass both racial prejudice and “disproportionate effect,” but that’s not the common usage.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > In ordinary usage, “racism” means prejudice based on race. There are efforts by some to muddy its meaning, to encompass both racial prejudice and “disproportionate effect,” but that’s not the common usage. Thank you. For some reason I've never been able to explain it so succinctly when two people I respect get into an obviously semantic argument around something being or not being racist and then getting lost in the weeds of the intentions of the long dead.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      Just so we're all clear, the racism of prohibitions on intergenerational housing --- which is what BLM is talking about when they talk about the "nuclear family" or whatever it is they said to spook the normies --- is racism, not disproportionate impact. Single family zoning was designed to keep specific ethnicities out of "white" neighborhoods. It's not an accident.
      - spacemanmatt 4y ago
        Do you think that there is a large gap between prejudice and disproportionate effect? I'm just curious how this break down for you.
        tptacek 4y ago
        I don't know, I'm just saying these policies were motivated directly, maybe exclusively by racial animus.
        JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > I'm just saying these policies were motivated directly, maybe exclusively by racial animus We have similar motivations to thank for our cabaret laws in New York, which literally fined restaurants without the proper licences if their patrons danced.
  - spacemanmatt 4y ago
    > In ordinary usage Sounds like you are referring to a connotative value which is common to a subculture of English speakers. I learned to use the dictionary definition from sociology 101.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      You definitely didn’t learn the “dictionary definition” in any sociology class, but rather a redefinition of the term developed in social sciences circles that’s used mainly there. https://www.google.com/search?q=racism&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari https://www.google.com/search?q=racism&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=... > noun prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized. "a program to combat racism"
      - spacemanmatt 4y ago
        That's nice that you think the dictionary definition is an newer academic construct
        rayiner 4y ago
        I’m not sure I understand your point. The dictionary definition, as I quoted above, refers to prejudice. Is that what you learned in sociology?
        spacemanmatt 4y ago
        Yes, prejudice was discussed, but prejudice is not descriptive of the social force that we talked about in sociology.
        spacemanmatt 4y ago
        The definition you quoted included discrimination which is another umbrella term like disproportionate effect. Why is it so hard to understand that racism is what racism does?

deleted 4y ago

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