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Over-reliance on income tax to fund the state's budget is a decades long problem. You can thank prop 13 for that. It's why whenever there's a recession Califo

Over-reliance on income tax to fund the state's budget is a decades long problem. You can thank prop 13 for that. It's why whenever there's a recession California has gigantic budget shortfalls. Expanding industry isn't gonna fix the problem. Currently the state has an ~80bil surplus. The state needs to keep some of that around for the inevitable recession.

throwaway894345 4y ago
I don't have strong feelings about prop 13, but what does it limit here? It's not like it's sane to arbitrarily raise property taxes during a recession (make housing even less affordable at the moment people have less money to spend). Seems like prop 13 or not, the solution is the one you identified in your last paragraph: maintain a buffer that can't be touched until a recession is declared (for some reasonable, objective definition of "recession").
- frankbreetz 4y ago
  Property values are usually not affect by recessions, 2008 being the exception, and thus income from property taxes is not affected as much. Income is more affected by recession. If prop13 is repealed California could raise larger percent of its budget from property taxes as opposed to income taxes, and it would help with variations of tax income.
  - pishpash 4y ago
    That's an illusion. It is not as liquid and there is no mark-to-market but prices absolutely do fall during a recession if real estate were to trade.
    - frankbreetz 4y ago
      The comment was about tax ebing raised by the state, illusion or not it affects taxes the same
      - pishpash 4y ago
        So you're saying it's like medieval lords, extract the same tax regardless of economic circumstance. That can be done without the roundabout via real estate.
- wonnage 4y ago
  I think that buffer would be even less popular. I can imagine the attack ads already - "California has the highest tax rates and they're not even spending it! Your tax dollars are sitting idle in the hands of <evil bank name of the week>"
  - inferiorhuman 4y ago
    The last republican governor was actually a big force behind our current rainy day fund.
- inferiorhuman 4y ago
  Prop 13 makes it nearly impossible to raise any tax (state or local) including one to fund a buffer or rainy day fund. Prop 8 makes it possible to get a reduction in property tax as values go down. Prop 98 makes it impossible to claw back funds spent on K-12 stuff.
  - throwaway894345 4y ago
    The comment I replied to claims Cali has an $80B surplus. Seems like there's plenty there for a rainy day fund. Anyway, whether or not you can raise taxes is pretty immaterial to a rainy day fund--it's just a matter of whether or not it's prioritized. If California can't prioritize said fund now, then it wouldn't be able to do so with prop13 (it would just find other uses for the revenue).
bushbaba 4y ago
Accept California’s property tax revenue income has grown faster than inflation.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  The state's budget grows a lot faster than inflation. Property tax revenues aren't growing anywhere near as fast as income tax revenues. The trend is clear. The state is more and more dependent on income tax.
vmception 4y ago
> Currently the state has an ~80bil surplus. The state needs to keep some of that around for the inevitable recession. yeah well the governor has an election to win, so free money for everyone
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

throwaway894345 4y ago

I don't have strong feelings about prop 13, but what does it limit here? It's not like it's sane to arbitrarily raise property taxes during a recession (make housing even less affordable at the moment people have less money to spend). Seems like prop 13 or not, the solution is the one you identified in your last paragraph: maintain a buffer that can't be touched until a recession is declared (for some reasonable, objective definition of "recession").

frankbreetz 4y ago
Property values are usually not affect by recessions, 2008 being the exception, and thus income from property taxes is not affected as much. Income is more affected by recession. If prop13 is repealed California could raise larger percent of its budget from property taxes as opposed to income taxes, and it would help with variations of tax income.
- pishpash 4y ago
  That's an illusion. It is not as liquid and there is no mark-to-market but prices absolutely do fall during a recession if real estate were to trade.
  - frankbreetz 4y ago
    The comment was about tax ebing raised by the state, illusion or not it affects taxes the same
    - pishpash 4y ago
      So you're saying it's like medieval lords, extract the same tax regardless of economic circumstance. That can be done without the roundabout via real estate.
wonnage 4y ago
I think that buffer would be even less popular. I can imagine the attack ads already - "California has the highest tax rates and they're not even spending it! Your tax dollars are sitting idle in the hands of <evil bank name of the week>"
- inferiorhuman 4y ago
  The last republican governor was actually a big force behind our current rainy day fund.
inferiorhuman 4y ago
Prop 13 makes it nearly impossible to raise any tax (state or local) including one to fund a buffer or rainy day fund. Prop 8 makes it possible to get a reduction in property tax as values go down. Prop 98 makes it impossible to claw back funds spent on K-12 stuff.
- throwaway894345 4y ago
  The comment I replied to claims Cali has an $80B surplus. Seems like there's plenty there for a rainy day fund. Anyway, whether or not you can raise taxes is pretty immaterial to a rainy day fund--it's just a matter of whether or not it's prioritized. If California can't prioritize said fund now, then it wouldn't be able to do so with prop13 (it would just find other uses for the revenue).

bushbaba 4y ago

Accept California’s property tax revenue income has grown faster than inflation.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
The state's budget grows a lot faster than inflation. Property tax revenues aren't growing anywhere near as fast as income tax revenues. The trend is clear. The state is more and more dependent on income tax.

vmception 4y ago

> Currently the state has an ~80bil surplus. The state needs to keep some of that around for the inevitable recession. yeah well the governor has an election to win, so free money for everyone

deleted 4y ago

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