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That is a spectacularly, obtusely uncharitable interpretation of that statement. I didn't need proof of purchase, ownership, or a traceable path of transactions

That is a spectacularly, obtusely uncharitable interpretation of that statement. I didn't need proof of purchase, ownership, or a traceable path of transactions to the manufacturer when I got root on the PC I built. Or on my phone, for that matter. Yet somehow, it's now secure, and anyone else that gets their hands on it, won't be able to get root. This is the exact kind of amnesia I was talking about. Are you really unfamiliar with default passwords that one changes at boot, such as every consumer router has?

Arnt 4y ago
Those passwords don't grant root access, they don't even grant access to execute general programs, far less to execute anything as root. Would you be happy if Google granted access to run Google-supplied programs as root, but not programs from anyone else? No?
- cowtools 4y ago
  You're using an overly specific definition of the word "root access". "root access" in the context of this conversation just means the paramount ability to decide what runs on the computer (ownership secure boot keys, ability to modify OS, ability to change or remove userspace programs).
  - Arnt 4y ago
    In other words, root access does not require being able to run Total Commander as root, or SimpleSSHd? I have a NAS at home, "root access" doesn't mean that I would be able to back up the entire phone to that NAS?
    - cowtools 4y ago
      Within this context, "root access" is "root" in the sense that it refers to whatever the highest level of privilege is (the root of the trust chain). It's like a tree where each program/agent can spawn subprograms/subagents with privileges that are a subset of its parents. With root access, you have the ultimate ability to decide what runs on the computer. Including programs that do not have root access or programs that prevent other programs from running with root access. If the highest level of privilege is secure boot (the ability to decide what OS runs on the device), then you can run an OS that lets you read everything off the filesystem, sure. But you can also run an OS that doesn't let you read everything off the filesystem. What matters is that if you have root, you (as a person) are at the top of the trust chain. It doesn't matter if the root permissions trickle down to seated users because you can change that if you're at the top.

Arnt 4y ago

Those passwords don't grant root access, they don't even grant access to execute general programs, far less to execute anything as root. Would you be happy if Google granted access to run Google-supplied programs as root, but not programs from anyone else? No?

cowtools 4y ago
You're using an overly specific definition of the word "root access". "root access" in the context of this conversation just means the paramount ability to decide what runs on the computer (ownership secure boot keys, ability to modify OS, ability to change or remove userspace programs).
- Arnt 4y ago
  In other words, root access does not require being able to run Total Commander as root, or SimpleSSHd? I have a NAS at home, "root access" doesn't mean that I would be able to back up the entire phone to that NAS?
  - cowtools 4y ago
    Within this context, "root access" is "root" in the sense that it refers to whatever the highest level of privilege is (the root of the trust chain). It's like a tree where each program/agent can spawn subprograms/subagents with privileges that are a subset of its parents. With root access, you have the ultimate ability to decide what runs on the computer. Including programs that do not have root access or programs that prevent other programs from running with root access. If the highest level of privilege is secure boot (the ability to decide what OS runs on the device), then you can run an OS that lets you read everything off the filesystem, sure. But you can also run an OS that doesn't let you read everything off the filesystem. What matters is that if you have root, you (as a person) are at the top of the trust chain. It doesn't matter if the root permissions trickle down to seated users because you can change that if you're at the top.