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I'm going off the warranty - if it was really that good they'd offer better warranty, no? Speaking of the Nissan Leaf, upon searching I came across a forum post

I'm going off the warranty - if it was really that good they'd offer better warranty, no? Speaking of the Nissan Leaf, upon searching I came across a forum post (https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=32426 https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=32426) claiming they're down to 60% in 6 years. Pretty bad, no? Obviously anecdotal but my original post was conservative to begin with.

josephcsible 4y ago
Is 60,000 miles a good estimate for how long the engine and transmission will last in ICE vehicles, since that's how long the warranty on them is?
- endisneigh 4y ago
  Yes. EVs have Powertrain and Battery warranty. You'd think the powertrain warranty would be much longer in an EV right? The only manufacturer that seems to put their money where their mouth is in Hyundai with a lifetime length and mileage battery warranty.
  - peferron 4y ago
    Why do you answer "yes" when the answer is obviously "no"? No, 60k miles is not a good estimate for how long ICE powertrains usually last. Truly baffling reasoning. Another example: iPhones have a 1-year warranty but usually last much longer than that.
    - endisneigh 4y ago
      It's an apples to apples comparison. Anything else is just cherry picking. There are plenty of cars that can't go 60K miles without some part of the powertrain needing maintenance. The question is how long something lasts without needing any repair. The warranty is a good approximation of this. Obviously with constant repair things can last much longer. iPhones are irrelevant to the discussion, lol.
      - josephcsible 4y ago
        > needing maintenance > needing any repair But for the battery, you were talking about when it needed replacement.
        endisneigh 4y ago
        Yes, in the context of battery degradation, not that the battery doesn't work at all, or battery failure.
      - peferron 4y ago
        > The question is how long something lasts without needing any repair. The warranty is a good approximation of this. No, it's not. That's why some manufacturers offer much longer warranties than others despite having similar reliability numbers. Warranty terms are driven by the business and encompass a lot more than mean time to first failure. > iPhones are irrelevant to the discussion, lol. If warranties were a good approximation of how long things last without repair, why would that only apply in the car world?
        endisneigh 4y ago
        > No, it's not. That's why some manufacturers offer much longer warranties than others despite having similar reliability numbers. Warranty terms are driven by the business and encompass a lot more than mean time to first failure. What's an example of this controlled for the price of the car? > If warranties were a good approximation of how long things last without repair, why would that only apply in the car world? Warranties are a good approximation in the context of cars. Virtually all other consumer devices have a 1 year warranty so it's not really a distinguishing feature. In any case, warranty aside the reason I even brought it up is because many manufacturers warranties imply potential for up to 30% degradation after about 8 years which is why I used the numbers I used (https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/how-long-do-ev-batteries-last https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/how-long-do-ev-batter...)
        josephcsible 4y ago
sokoloff 4y ago
They are obliged to offer a warranty that qualifies them to take the Federal Clean Air credits and commensurate with the mandated warranty on emission control devices. (An EV’s battery is an emission control device.) Any decision to offer a warranty beyond that is driven by whether it will entice new car buyers to buy the car or to pay more for it.
throwawayboise 4y ago
Warranties are for sales. They don't really say much one way or the other about the reliability of the car.

josephcsible 4y ago

Is 60,000 miles a good estimate for how long the engine and transmission will last in ICE vehicles, since that's how long the warranty on them is?

endisneigh 4y ago
Yes. EVs have Powertrain and Battery warranty. You'd think the powertrain warranty would be much longer in an EV right? The only manufacturer that seems to put their money where their mouth is in Hyundai with a lifetime length and mileage battery warranty.
- peferron 4y ago
  Why do you answer "yes" when the answer is obviously "no"? No, 60k miles is not a good estimate for how long ICE powertrains usually last. Truly baffling reasoning. Another example: iPhones have a 1-year warranty but usually last much longer than that.
  - endisneigh 4y ago
    It's an apples to apples comparison. Anything else is just cherry picking. There are plenty of cars that can't go 60K miles without some part of the powertrain needing maintenance. The question is how long something lasts without needing any repair. The warranty is a good approximation of this. Obviously with constant repair things can last much longer. iPhones are irrelevant to the discussion, lol.
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      > needing maintenance > needing any repair But for the battery, you were talking about when it needed replacement.
      - endisneigh 4y ago
        Yes, in the context of battery degradation, not that the battery doesn't work at all, or battery failure.
    - peferron 4y ago
      > The question is how long something lasts without needing any repair. The warranty is a good approximation of this. No, it's not. That's why some manufacturers offer much longer warranties than others despite having similar reliability numbers. Warranty terms are driven by the business and encompass a lot more than mean time to first failure. > iPhones are irrelevant to the discussion, lol. If warranties were a good approximation of how long things last without repair, why would that only apply in the car world?
      - endisneigh 4y ago
        > No, it's not. That's why some manufacturers offer much longer warranties than others despite having similar reliability numbers. Warranty terms are driven by the business and encompass a lot more than mean time to first failure. What's an example of this controlled for the price of the car? > If warranties were a good approximation of how long things last without repair, why would that only apply in the car world? Warranties are a good approximation in the context of cars. Virtually all other consumer devices have a 1 year warranty so it's not really a distinguishing feature. In any case, warranty aside the reason I even brought it up is because many manufacturers warranties imply potential for up to 30% degradation after about 8 years which is why I used the numbers I used (https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/how-long-do-ev-batteries-last https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/how-long-do-ev-batter...)
        josephcsible 4y ago

sokoloff 4y ago

They are obliged to offer a warranty that qualifies them to take the Federal Clean Air credits and commensurate with the mandated warranty on emission control devices. (An EV’s battery is an emission control device.) Any decision to offer a warranty beyond that is driven by whether it will entice new car buyers to buy the car or to pay more for it.

throwawayboise 4y ago

Warranties are for sales. They don't really say much one way or the other about the reliability of the car.