5 ms·

How? Precisely? I’ll vote unequivocally against any reparations. It’s illogical, immoral and unjust.

pessimizer 4y ago
Transitivity. I think if you can't take responsibility for the sins of the US, you shouldn't get a vote. Votes are for people who are all-in.
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  Revoking my vote is the very opposite of the spirit of American democracy. The biggest problem America faces is the rise of collectivism (and also Fascism from the right). California leading the pack. I didn't come to America to be part of a socialist nation which wants equality of outcome. The strength of USA, and I would say uniquely, is in individualism, freedom, rights and its core founding principles. This is probably the most offensive thing you can say to anyone. It is so strange to see young generation of this place veering towards Autoritarian socialist nation. We've seen how that turns out (North vs South Korea, Cambodia, USSR, Cuba). Universities in the US is the hotbed for this non-sense. Regarding reparations, Russia paying reparations after the war to Ukraine? Probably OK. Woke Russians 600 years later telling the new generation to feel guilty about what Putin did 6 centuries ago? NOT OK. Immigrants are the probably the most American people in US it feels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4E9usD_4Fo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4E9usD_4Fo
  - DFHippie 4y ago
    Patriotism involves sharing the burdens of your country and working for its betterment. Among these burdens are moral burdens. If your country does something wrong the patriotic thing to do is to contribute to making it right. Calling this "collectivism" is bizarre. It is simply what it means to be patriotically committed to your country: you wish your country to thrive, not merely yourself.
    - systemvoltage 4y ago
      This is a facade of morality is extremely condescending. Just because I don't support socialism != not serving the nation and being patriotic, looking out for the interest of the country. If you want to serve the country: build good communities, hold government accountable, make it efficient, engage in philantropy, join your local soup kitchen, be thankful for people that serve in the military and public services, serve if you can, run for public office and build good products/services that improve lives of people. I'd argue that not supporting individualism is doing a disservice to the country. It is the reason why we have transistors and MRI machines, medicines and vaccines, iPhones and semiconductors, agriculture and roads (paid by taxes, 40% from large corporations). The impact of which is on an unprecedented scale compared to virtue signaling reparations.
      - DFHippie 4y ago
        You have missed my point. You can be conservative and patriotic. You can be liberal and patriotic. But if you are patriotically committed to your country, it means you agree to help carry your country's burdens. If your country has done something wrong and shameful, it is not patriotic to ignore this, much less to insist everyone else ignore it, or to hope they don't ignore it but that no one asks you to chip in. This is selfishness and dishonors the country you claim to love and support. The patriotic thing to do is to help right the wrong, make amends. This glorifies your country. This isn't to say this is any more than an ideal, but it is a mark worth aiming for, and when a country grants you citizenship it expects that you buy into this notion at least as an ideal. Yes, you can in effect buy citizenship in many places, but this is generally regarded as a shame and an embarrassment.
        systemvoltage 4y ago
        May be we are talking past each other. "Collectivism" has a formal meaning and that's what I am referring to. Mao's collectivism. The sacrifice of the individual (killing of millions) for the good of the society. I am sure you would agree, given the definition, it is Un-American. > when a country grants you citizenship it expects that you buy into this notion at least as an ideal I hope this is not an accussation inclined towards my loathing of what's going on in this nation. If it is not, well said, if it is, then it is extremely condescending because any immigrant knows this better than anyone else. It is obvious and I live by it every single day. It makes me uneasy to hear this from someone, almost offensive and alienating.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  Only people I agree with should be allowed to vote!
  - uoaei 4y ago
    Patriotism is pledging allegiance to a country and meaning it, taking the bad together with the good. Why would you give a vote to someone who wasn't serious about improving the country?
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      Because then someone has to decide who's "serious about improving the country" and who's not, and that "someone" then effectively gets to singlehandedly decide the election results.
sudosysgen 4y ago
By redistribution of wealth that was gained from theft and exploitation. I'm an immigrant too, and I am definitely benefitting. Not as much as some, but it would be closing my eyes to ignore how I benefit from past and present imperialism.

Transitivity. I think if you can't take responsibility for the sins of the US, you shouldn't get a vote. Votes are for people who are all-in.

systemvoltage 4y ago
Revoking my vote is the very opposite of the spirit of American democracy. The biggest problem America faces is the rise of collectivism (and also Fascism from the right). California leading the pack. I didn't come to America to be part of a socialist nation which wants equality of outcome. The strength of USA, and I would say uniquely, is in individualism, freedom, rights and its core founding principles. This is probably the most offensive thing you can say to anyone. It is so strange to see young generation of this place veering towards Autoritarian socialist nation. We've seen how that turns out (North vs South Korea, Cambodia, USSR, Cuba). Universities in the US is the hotbed for this non-sense. Regarding reparations, Russia paying reparations after the war to Ukraine? Probably OK. Woke Russians 600 years later telling the new generation to feel guilty about what Putin did 6 centuries ago? NOT OK. Immigrants are the probably the most American people in US it feels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4E9usD_4Fo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4E9usD_4Fo
- DFHippie 4y ago
  Patriotism involves sharing the burdens of your country and working for its betterment. Among these burdens are moral burdens. If your country does something wrong the patriotic thing to do is to contribute to making it right. Calling this "collectivism" is bizarre. It is simply what it means to be patriotically committed to your country: you wish your country to thrive, not merely yourself.
  - systemvoltage 4y ago
    This is a facade of morality is extremely condescending. Just because I don't support socialism != not serving the nation and being patriotic, looking out for the interest of the country. If you want to serve the country: build good communities, hold government accountable, make it efficient, engage in philantropy, join your local soup kitchen, be thankful for people that serve in the military and public services, serve if you can, run for public office and build good products/services that improve lives of people. I'd argue that not supporting individualism is doing a disservice to the country. It is the reason why we have transistors and MRI machines, medicines and vaccines, iPhones and semiconductors, agriculture and roads (paid by taxes, 40% from large corporations). The impact of which is on an unprecedented scale compared to virtue signaling reparations.
    - DFHippie 4y ago
      You have missed my point. You can be conservative and patriotic. You can be liberal and patriotic. But if you are patriotically committed to your country, it means you agree to help carry your country's burdens. If your country has done something wrong and shameful, it is not patriotic to ignore this, much less to insist everyone else ignore it, or to hope they don't ignore it but that no one asks you to chip in. This is selfishness and dishonors the country you claim to love and support. The patriotic thing to do is to help right the wrong, make amends. This glorifies your country. This isn't to say this is any more than an ideal, but it is a mark worth aiming for, and when a country grants you citizenship it expects that you buy into this notion at least as an ideal. Yes, you can in effect buy citizenship in many places, but this is generally regarded as a shame and an embarrassment.
      - systemvoltage 4y ago
        May be we are talking past each other. "Collectivism" has a formal meaning and that's what I am referring to. Mao's collectivism. The sacrifice of the individual (killing of millions) for the good of the society. I am sure you would agree, given the definition, it is Un-American. > when a country grants you citizenship it expects that you buy into this notion at least as an ideal I hope this is not an accussation inclined towards my loathing of what's going on in this nation. If it is not, well said, if it is, then it is extremely condescending because any immigrant knows this better than anyone else. It is obvious and I live by it every single day. It makes me uneasy to hear this from someone, almost offensive and alienating.
josephcsible 4y ago
Only people I agree with should be allowed to vote!
- uoaei 4y ago
  Patriotism is pledging allegiance to a country and meaning it, taking the bad together with the good. Why would you give a vote to someone who wasn't serious about improving the country?
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    Because then someone has to decide who's "serious about improving the country" and who's not, and that "someone" then effectively gets to singlehandedly decide the election results.

sudosysgen 4y ago

By redistribution of wealth that was gained from theft and exploitation. I'm an immigrant too, and I am definitely benefitting. Not as much as some, but it would be closing my eyes to ignore how I benefit from past and present imperialism.