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Background: I do downhill longboarding as a hobby. > If some riders choose to not wear a helmet [...] ...we take their board from them, until they show up wit

Background: I do downhill longboarding as a hobby. > If some riders choose to not wear a helmet [...] ...we take their board from them, until they show up with one. This sport is almost completely unregulated (outside of official events), but somehow the community has developed an incredibly strong culture of keeping both yourself and the others around you safe. I guess something about being a niche sport, perhaps a bit of natural selection. If e.g. a sponsor (hypothetically - I'm nowhere near good enough to get sponsorship) told me not to wear any particular piece of safety gear, I'd laugh them out of the room, and likely the entire local crew would join in the laughing. It's a small sport, once the word gets out, that company would also likely no longer be getting many sales either. The only correct move for the Pedal Me riders is to go pedal for someone else. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yL5usLFgY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yL5usLFgY

dharmab 4y ago
I'm sure one serious injury can ruin an entire day for everyone at an event. It makes sense that the community would expect consideration from boarders of the consequences on an accident on others.
- capableweb 4y ago
  I'm sure some think like that too, but people are also selfless enough to want others to be safe, no matter if it ruins the event for them or not.
backtoyoujim 4y ago
Freedom in an unregulated space requires less freedom for the individual, I suppose.
- Covzire 4y ago
  Doesn't have to be a zero sum game, they may be free but have a strong safety culture for another reason.
- mhmmbt 4y ago
- rollcat 4y ago
  The safety gear __is__ the freedom. You have minor crashes, bails, small accidents every day, sometimes almost every run. It's normal, it's a part of the sport: you're pushing to improve yourself, you're racing other people competitively. The helmet is an "extra life", but the sliding gloves (think velcro hockey pucks) are about as essential as the wheels themselves; you wear them even in "no paws down" (standup slides only) races, they're what's keeping your palms from becoming meat crayons. The safety gear allows you to just walk away from some otherwise life-ending accidents like nothing happened.
zasdffaa 4y ago
> ...we take their board from them, until they show up with one. Reminds me of a blessedly terse reminder on the entry to a building site: "No hat no boots no job"
yucky 4y ago
>...we take their board from them, until they show up with one. I'm confused what this means. So you steal their board? Or are they borrowing/using someone else's board and they forfeit the right to use it?
- progman32 4y ago
  Presumably, like stealing someone's car keys if they're trying to drive drunk, or taking someone's stick on the city streets if you're one of Louis Rossman's crew in NYC and the perp is going around smashing stuff ;)
  - yucky 4y ago
    I think your presumption is illogical, since you take someone's car keys to stop them from committing a crime and harming/killing others.
- rollcat 4y ago
  TL;DR It probably wouldn't happen literally, but any local community is too small and interdependent. I've never actually seen this threat "executed": the rules are all unwritten, but most people get a clue when reminded or lectured. My friend once wanted to skate in a broken helmet - it literally saved his life a few days before. We had a cute argument, he said it's not really broken if he only hit his head very lightly (so "lightly", he actually had a slight neck pain). I told him I'd buy that broken helmet from him at a full price, just so he doesn't use it, he wouldn't believe me until I took €150 out of my pocket. Eventually he agreed to not be an idiot ;) If you'd insist on not wearing a helmet? On an official event, you'd probably get removed, possibly banned from future events. You need a sticker with your number on the helmet, so you wouldn't make it as far as the start line. I guess on an unofficial freeride, you just wouldn't get invited again - it's all invite only to begin with, and doesn't make much sense unless you have at least 3-4 people participating; someone needs to shuttle, you split the gas cost, sometimes you need spotters, etc. Randoms on a local spot? You either already know them (so you are allowed to yell at them), or they're new, so you make friends and they get a mentor.
jasonkester 4y ago
What do you suppose happened to the rest of skateboarding that pushed it in the opposite direction? Watching the olympics this summer, it was amazing to watch the street skating events with none of the competitors wearing any sort of protective gear. And it’s not like they didn’t need it either. They were getting wrecked in falls to the point where some of the couldn’t even finish the competition. It was nuts watching it, since my last exposure to the sport was from the 90s where Tony Hawk would be padded out to the nines while standing around giving an interview by the side of the park. What is going on that made helmets so uncool that you wouldn’t even wear one if you knew you were going to fall on your head?
- Widdershin 4y ago
  You wouldn’t generally exceed 15mph street skating. Competent downhill skaters can reach 50mph+, with world record speeds exceeding 80mph. That alone makes safety gear much more essential for downhill. In addition, if someone shows up to a spot without adequate gear, crashes and badly hurts themselves, it can cause the spot to be blown for other riders. Downhill skateboarding is much easier when you’re on the good side of local residents and police. Also, since DH communities tend to be very small and tight-knit, if someone gets hurt you hear about it. I’ve personally witnessed multiple incidents leading to broken spines, countless minor injuries, and have had one friend die while skating. Either you take safety seriously or pay the piper. There are more factors than this, would probably make for an interesting sociology dissertation.
  - serf 4y ago
    > You wouldn’t generally exceed 15mph street skating. Competent downhill skaters can reach 50mph+, with world record speeds exceeding 80mph. it's all context, no? You wouldn't try to trick over a 17ft drop on a longboard, either. [0] [0]: https://www.vice.com/en/article/kzn58e/the-leap-of-faith-was-skateboardings-definitive-avant-garde-moment https://www.vice.com/en/article/kzn58e/the-leap-of-faith-was...
    - Widdershin 4y ago
gernb 4y ago
I''m not defending Pedal Me but you could try to design the city so biking is safer https://www.treehugger.com/why-dutch-dont-wear-helmets-4858181 https://www.treehugger.com/why-dutch-dont-wear-helmets-48581... Sure you can still get in an accident. That's true of everything though. I don't go for a walk in a plastic bubble just in case a car hits me https://www.google.com/search?q=cars+hitting+pedestrians&tbm=vid https://www.google.com/search?q=cars+hitting+pedestrians&tbm...
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  Design won't do anything for the millions of ignorati that are handed drivers licenses without demonstrating driving competence.
- idiotsecant 4y ago
  You could have the best designed city in the world and you will still be at a high risk of your fragile brain case impacting the ground or something worse at speed. Whether you're pedaling down a country road or the busiest NYC intersection not wearing a helmet on a bike is stupid, full stop.
  - _abox 4y ago
    In the Netherlands we're doing fine without them though. Nobody wears one on a regular bike. I've had a few times where I slipped so fast I didn't even remember what happened but every time my arm was there protecting my head. Reflexes are awesome. Accidents can happen sure but the added hassle doesn't seem worth it. Of course things are different when you do high speed cycling or mountain biking.
    - nemetroid 4y ago
      Isn’t the Netherlands very flat? I would probably feel safe without a helmet if it weren’t for the hills. My usual ten minute ride has an elevation difference of 35 m.
      - 4y ago
d00k 4y ago
- rollcat 4y ago
  Why did you choose to purposefully misinterpret a metaphor?
hatsunearu 4y ago
Somewhat unrelated but in car culture aftermarket safety gear like roll cages, bucket seats, racing harnesses, HANS and helmets are seen as cool and badass. It's a good sight. Though there are some problems, like if you start running the race safety gear, you need to go all out--you can't have a bucket seat and a race harness without also using a helmet and HANS, your head is vulnerable, and if you run a roll cage without a helmet your head is vulnerable. But in race events a lot of people run "cool" safety gear and people have a good attitude towards it.
aeternum 4y ago
Don't you think it's a little hypocritical to force everyone to draw their acceptable risk line at exactly where you happen to draw it? Longboarding is risky, downhill longboarding is riskier, doing it without a helmet slightly moreso, doing it naked probably slightly moreso. Why is it okay for you to set the acceptable risk bar and steal boards from anyone that doesn't agree? Should people that think that downhill longboarding with a helmet is risky steal your board?
- bad_alloc 4y ago
  > Why is it okay for you to set the acceptable risk bar and steal boards from anyone that doesn't agree? For the same reason we enforce seatbelts in cars: Enough people died. Then those who saw them die decided on these rules so we don't need to go through the same pain. The fact that you don't get this shows that the rules work.
  - blfr 4y ago
    OK but longboarding is not essential like general transportation. Why ban helmet-less longboarding instead of the whole thing?
    - aspenmayer 4y ago
      You ruin the roadway for responsible users by maligning the good name and reputation of your fellow riders when you do so. I mean to say, riders overwhelmingly want to be safe and it seems to be both self-selecting and self-reinforcing. Outlaw riders are free to ride alone.
    - celticninja 4y ago
      Cars aren't essential by that measure.
      - thayne 4y ago
        That really depends on where you live. In many parts of the US, public transit is non-existent, and there isn't much within walking distance.
serf 4y ago
tengwar2 4y ago
Ok, so what you are saying appears to support Pedal Me's position as reported in the article. They say: (a) wearing helmets encourages risky behaviour; (b) the added risk of accidents outweighs the increase in safety during an accident. You are giving an example of a community who only engage in a dangerous activity if they wear helmets, supporting (a). And I imagine you would agree that you are less safe wearing a helmet and going downhill longboarding than not wearing a helmet and not going downhill longboarding? If so, that supports (b). It's not a conclusive argument, of course, and I have no axe to grind on this issue. It's just that I think that you might not have taken in to account what they are saying.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- rollcat 4y ago
  > wearing helmets encourages risky behaviour By this logic, there should be no life boats on ships. > And I imagine you would agree that you are less safe wearing a helmet and going downhill longboarding than not wearing a helmet and not going downhill longboarding? And by this logic, we should just never leave the port.
Doxin 4y ago
The case for helmets on bicycles is less clear cut than it is for more dangerous forms of transit such as downhill longboarding. Among other things it makes car drivers drive more dangerously around you, but it also changes much more common and less dangerous accidents into more dangerous ones. Taking a tumble on a bicycle is generally not fun, but getting your neck twisted due to a helmet isn't improving things. Of course I come at this from the perspective from a country where there's more miles of cycle lane than miles of car-only roads. Who knows which way the balance tips if you need to mix bicycle and car traffic. To be honest I would simply not ride a bicycle if that was required of me on a regular basis.
sporkland 4y ago
What does down hill long boarding have to do with low speed cycling? A bike 15-20mph is much closer to a runner (5-10mph), than your sport (50+ mph). You gonna stop people from running without a helmet? Their underlying point is we don't have a major problem with people falling off their bikes randomly, we have a problem with multi ton vehicles slamming into bikes and pedestrians. Did you know most bike helmets (not motorcycle ones) aren't tested for the force of car/truck hitting a bike? We need to stop pretending that if people put a helmet on their safe and we can go back to our lives. We need safer separate infrastructure, and if we had that you'd probably not worry so much about helmets.
- rollcat 4y ago
  Coffee and tee are not mutually exclusive. We need better infrastructure, better (cheaper, lighter, stronger) safety gear, AND to call out anyone who thinks you're safer sailing without a life-vest.

dharmab 4y ago

I'm sure one serious injury can ruin an entire day for everyone at an event. It makes sense that the community would expect consideration from boarders of the consequences on an accident on others.

capableweb 4y ago
I'm sure some think like that too, but people are also selfless enough to want others to be safe, no matter if it ruins the event for them or not.

backtoyoujim 4y ago

Freedom in an unregulated space requires less freedom for the individual, I suppose.

Covzire 4y ago
Doesn't have to be a zero sum game, they may be free but have a strong safety culture for another reason.
mhmmbt 4y ago
rollcat 4y ago
The safety gear __is__ the freedom. You have minor crashes, bails, small accidents every day, sometimes almost every run. It's normal, it's a part of the sport: you're pushing to improve yourself, you're racing other people competitively. The helmet is an "extra life", but the sliding gloves (think velcro hockey pucks) are about as essential as the wheels themselves; you wear them even in "no paws down" (standup slides only) races, they're what's keeping your palms from becoming meat crayons. The safety gear allows you to just walk away from some otherwise life-ending accidents like nothing happened.

zasdffaa 4y ago

> ...we take their board from them, until they show up with one. Reminds me of a blessedly terse reminder on the entry to a building site: "No hat no boots no job"

yucky 4y ago

>...we take their board from them, until they show up with one. I'm confused what this means. So you steal their board? Or are they borrowing/using someone else's board and they forfeit the right to use it?

progman32 4y ago
Presumably, like stealing someone's car keys if they're trying to drive drunk, or taking someone's stick on the city streets if you're one of Louis Rossman's crew in NYC and the perp is going around smashing stuff ;)
- yucky 4y ago
  I think your presumption is illogical, since you take someone's car keys to stop them from committing a crime and harming/killing others.
rollcat 4y ago
TL;DR It probably wouldn't happen literally, but any local community is too small and interdependent. I've never actually seen this threat "executed": the rules are all unwritten, but most people get a clue when reminded or lectured. My friend once wanted to skate in a broken helmet - it literally saved his life a few days before. We had a cute argument, he said it's not really broken if he only hit his head very lightly (so "lightly", he actually had a slight neck pain). I told him I'd buy that broken helmet from him at a full price, just so he doesn't use it, he wouldn't believe me until I took €150 out of my pocket. Eventually he agreed to not be an idiot ;) If you'd insist on not wearing a helmet? On an official event, you'd probably get removed, possibly banned from future events. You need a sticker with your number on the helmet, so you wouldn't make it as far as the start line. I guess on an unofficial freeride, you just wouldn't get invited again - it's all invite only to begin with, and doesn't make much sense unless you have at least 3-4 people participating; someone needs to shuttle, you split the gas cost, sometimes you need spotters, etc. Randoms on a local spot? You either already know them (so you are allowed to yell at them), or they're new, so you make friends and they get a mentor.

jasonkester 4y ago

What do you suppose happened to the rest of skateboarding that pushed it in the opposite direction? Watching the olympics this summer, it was amazing to watch the street skating events with none of the competitors wearing any sort of protective gear. And it’s not like they didn’t need it either. They were getting wrecked in falls to the point where some of the couldn’t even finish the competition. It was nuts watching it, since my last exposure to the sport was from the 90s where Tony Hawk would be padded out to the nines while standing around giving an interview by the side of the park. What is going on that made helmets so uncool that you wouldn’t even wear one if you knew you were going to fall on your head?

Widdershin 4y ago
You wouldn’t generally exceed 15mph street skating. Competent downhill skaters can reach 50mph+, with world record speeds exceeding 80mph. That alone makes safety gear much more essential for downhill. In addition, if someone shows up to a spot without adequate gear, crashes and badly hurts themselves, it can cause the spot to be blown for other riders. Downhill skateboarding is much easier when you’re on the good side of local residents and police. Also, since DH communities tend to be very small and tight-knit, if someone gets hurt you hear about it. I’ve personally witnessed multiple incidents leading to broken spines, countless minor injuries, and have had one friend die while skating. Either you take safety seriously or pay the piper. There are more factors than this, would probably make for an interesting sociology dissertation.
- serf 4y ago
  > You wouldn’t generally exceed 15mph street skating. Competent downhill skaters can reach 50mph+, with world record speeds exceeding 80mph. it's all context, no? You wouldn't try to trick over a 17ft drop on a longboard, either. [0] [0]: https://www.vice.com/en/article/kzn58e/the-leap-of-faith-was-skateboardings-definitive-avant-garde-moment https://www.vice.com/en/article/kzn58e/the-leap-of-faith-was...
  - Widdershin 4y ago

gernb 4y ago

I''m not defending Pedal Me but you could try to design the city so biking is safer https://www.treehugger.com/why-dutch-dont-wear-helmets-4858181 https://www.treehugger.com/why-dutch-dont-wear-helmets-48581... Sure you can still get in an accident. That's true of everything though. I don't go for a walk in a plastic bubble just in case a car hits me https://www.google.com/search?q=cars+hitting+pedestrians&tbm=vid https://www.google.com/search?q=cars+hitting+pedestrians&tbm...

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
Design won't do anything for the millions of ignorati that are handed drivers licenses without demonstrating driving competence.
idiotsecant 4y ago
You could have the best designed city in the world and you will still be at a high risk of your fragile brain case impacting the ground or something worse at speed. Whether you're pedaling down a country road or the busiest NYC intersection not wearing a helmet on a bike is stupid, full stop.
- _abox 4y ago
  In the Netherlands we're doing fine without them though. Nobody wears one on a regular bike. I've had a few times where I slipped so fast I didn't even remember what happened but every time my arm was there protecting my head. Reflexes are awesome. Accidents can happen sure but the added hassle doesn't seem worth it. Of course things are different when you do high speed cycling or mountain biking.
  - nemetroid 4y ago
    Isn’t the Netherlands very flat? I would probably feel safe without a helmet if it weren’t for the hills. My usual ten minute ride has an elevation difference of 35 m.
    - 4y ago

d00k 4y ago

rollcat 4y ago
Why did you choose to purposefully misinterpret a metaphor?

hatsunearu 4y ago

Somewhat unrelated but in car culture aftermarket safety gear like roll cages, bucket seats, racing harnesses, HANS and helmets are seen as cool and badass. It's a good sight. Though there are some problems, like if you start running the race safety gear, you need to go all out--you can't have a bucket seat and a race harness without also using a helmet and HANS, your head is vulnerable, and if you run a roll cage without a helmet your head is vulnerable. But in race events a lot of people run "cool" safety gear and people have a good attitude towards it.

aeternum 4y ago

Don't you think it's a little hypocritical to force everyone to draw their acceptable risk line at exactly where you happen to draw it? Longboarding is risky, downhill longboarding is riskier, doing it without a helmet slightly moreso, doing it naked probably slightly moreso. Why is it okay for you to set the acceptable risk bar and steal boards from anyone that doesn't agree? Should people that think that downhill longboarding with a helmet is risky steal your board?

bad_alloc 4y ago
> Why is it okay for you to set the acceptable risk bar and steal boards from anyone that doesn't agree? For the same reason we enforce seatbelts in cars: Enough people died. Then those who saw them die decided on these rules so we don't need to go through the same pain. The fact that you don't get this shows that the rules work.
- blfr 4y ago
  OK but longboarding is not essential like general transportation. Why ban helmet-less longboarding instead of the whole thing?
  - aspenmayer 4y ago
    You ruin the roadway for responsible users by maligning the good name and reputation of your fellow riders when you do so. I mean to say, riders overwhelmingly want to be safe and it seems to be both self-selecting and self-reinforcing. Outlaw riders are free to ride alone.
  - celticninja 4y ago
    Cars aren't essential by that measure.
    - thayne 4y ago
      That really depends on where you live. In many parts of the US, public transit is non-existent, and there isn't much within walking distance.

serf 4y ago

tengwar2 4y ago

Ok, so what you are saying appears to support Pedal Me's position as reported in the article. They say: (a) wearing helmets encourages risky behaviour; (b) the added risk of accidents outweighs the increase in safety during an accident. You are giving an example of a community who only engage in a dangerous activity if they wear helmets, supporting (a). And I imagine you would agree that you are less safe wearing a helmet and going downhill longboarding than not wearing a helmet and not going downhill longboarding? If so, that supports (b). It's not a conclusive argument, of course, and I have no axe to grind on this issue. It's just that I think that you might not have taken in to account what they are saying.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rollcat 4y ago
> wearing helmets encourages risky behaviour By this logic, there should be no life boats on ships. > And I imagine you would agree that you are less safe wearing a helmet and going downhill longboarding than not wearing a helmet and not going downhill longboarding? And by this logic, we should just never leave the port.

Doxin 4y ago

The case for helmets on bicycles is less clear cut than it is for more dangerous forms of transit such as downhill longboarding. Among other things it makes car drivers drive more dangerously around you, but it also changes much more common and less dangerous accidents into more dangerous ones. Taking a tumble on a bicycle is generally not fun, but getting your neck twisted due to a helmet isn't improving things. Of course I come at this from the perspective from a country where there's more miles of cycle lane than miles of car-only roads. Who knows which way the balance tips if you need to mix bicycle and car traffic. To be honest I would simply not ride a bicycle if that was required of me on a regular basis.

sporkland 4y ago

What does down hill long boarding have to do with low speed cycling? A bike 15-20mph is much closer to a runner (5-10mph), than your sport (50+ mph). You gonna stop people from running without a helmet? Their underlying point is we don't have a major problem with people falling off their bikes randomly, we have a problem with multi ton vehicles slamming into bikes and pedestrians. Did you know most bike helmets (not motorcycle ones) aren't tested for the force of car/truck hitting a bike? We need to stop pretending that if people put a helmet on their safe and we can go back to our lives. We need safer separate infrastructure, and if we had that you'd probably not worry so much about helmets.

rollcat 4y ago
Coffee and tee are not mutually exclusive. We need better infrastructure, better (cheaper, lighter, stronger) safety gear, AND to call out anyone who thinks you're safer sailing without a life-vest.