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Aren’t the at fault vehicular manslaughter laws in the US the same for drivers who hit cars, cyclists, and pedestrians? If you kill a cyclist in the US and you’

Aren’t the at fault vehicular manslaughter laws in the US the same for drivers who hit cars, cyclists, and pedestrians? If you kill a cyclist in the US and you’re at fault, that’s likely jail time (same for hitting a car or pedestrian). What’s missing in US laws vs Netherlands?

sokoloff 4y ago
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/245475107?storyId=245475107 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/245475107?storyId=245475107 If you are convicted of vehicular manslaughter, you are very likely going to serve time. However, if you hit and kill and cyclist in the US, you are not likely to be charged with vehicular manslaughter, so long as you were sober and weren’t actively trying to hit them.
anonymousab 4y ago
In the Netherlands and several other European countries, there is presumed/strict liability on the part of the automobile driver. Regardless of fault, a car driver has responsibility for any accident between their car and a bicycle. There is of course more nuance to this, but that's the basic overlying principle. A joke I heard a few times was "If a bike fell out of the air onto a parked car, the car owner is going to court."
- 988747 4y ago
  Which sounds terrible, and goes against "innocent until proven guilty" rule. Also, in some situations it gives the driver perverse incentive to finish the cyclist off (and therefore get rid of the only witness), instead of, say, calling an ambulance.
  - supertrope 4y ago
    There a lot of cultural bias against bicyclists already. While leaving the scene of an injury accident is a crime, murder is an extreme escalation.
  - jules 4y ago
    No. The maximum prison sentence in such a case would be 8, 6, or 2 months in the Netherlands, depending on how reckless the driver was (and up to 4 years if drunk). If you then kill the cyclist you're looking at a maximum of 25 years.
macintux 4y ago
There’s a morbid joke in the U.S.: if you want to kill someone, do it while they’re riding a bicycle. Certainly the perception is that drivers don’t face jail time in such a situation.
School-Cotton 4y ago
It’s not a matter of what’s actually written in the laws but of police/prosecutorial discretion. Whatever laws are on the books are virtually never actually enforced against motorists, because motorism (and disdain/resentment against cyclists) is deeply embedded in the culture. The default reaction of the median American (or at least, the median law enforcer) to any accident involving a motorist and a cyclist, regardless of actual fault, is “fucking bikers always breaking laws, running red lights and stop signs, if they want to take our lanes and slow us down, why don’t they think they have to follow rules like a REAL vehicle,” etc.
- supertrope 4y ago
  The last time I did jury duty the judge and staff made sure everyone knew how to use the free parking. A jury of motorists isn't going to judge a fellow motorist harshly.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    “Jury of their peers” indeed…
kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
> that’s likely jail time No. It will be slap on the wrist time if there are any consequences at all. All it requires is a driver to lie about some mitigating cause they weren't responsible for.

sokoloff 4y ago

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/245475107?storyId=245475107 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/245475107?storyId=245475107 If you are convicted of vehicular manslaughter, you are very likely going to serve time. However, if you hit and kill and cyclist in the US, you are not likely to be charged with vehicular manslaughter, so long as you were sober and weren’t actively trying to hit them.

anonymousab 4y ago

In the Netherlands and several other European countries, there is presumed/strict liability on the part of the automobile driver. Regardless of fault, a car driver has responsibility for any accident between their car and a bicycle. There is of course more nuance to this, but that's the basic overlying principle. A joke I heard a few times was "If a bike fell out of the air onto a parked car, the car owner is going to court."

988747 4y ago
Which sounds terrible, and goes against "innocent until proven guilty" rule. Also, in some situations it gives the driver perverse incentive to finish the cyclist off (and therefore get rid of the only witness), instead of, say, calling an ambulance.
- supertrope 4y ago
  There a lot of cultural bias against bicyclists already. While leaving the scene of an injury accident is a crime, murder is an extreme escalation.
- jules 4y ago
  No. The maximum prison sentence in such a case would be 8, 6, or 2 months in the Netherlands, depending on how reckless the driver was (and up to 4 years if drunk). If you then kill the cyclist you're looking at a maximum of 25 years.

macintux 4y ago

There’s a morbid joke in the U.S.: if you want to kill someone, do it while they’re riding a bicycle. Certainly the perception is that drivers don’t face jail time in such a situation.

School-Cotton 4y ago

It’s not a matter of what’s actually written in the laws but of police/prosecutorial discretion. Whatever laws are on the books are virtually never actually enforced against motorists, because motorism (and disdain/resentment against cyclists) is deeply embedded in the culture. The default reaction of the median American (or at least, the median law enforcer) to any accident involving a motorist and a cyclist, regardless of actual fault, is “fucking bikers always breaking laws, running red lights and stop signs, if they want to take our lanes and slow us down, why don’t they think they have to follow rules like a REAL vehicle,” etc.

supertrope 4y ago
The last time I did jury duty the judge and staff made sure everyone knew how to use the free parking. A jury of motorists isn't going to judge a fellow motorist harshly.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  “Jury of their peers” indeed…

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago

> that’s likely jail time No. It will be slap on the wrist time if there are any consequences at all. All it requires is a driver to lie about some mitigating cause they weren't responsible for.