4 ms·

There's a couple takeaways from the first article. The cyclists with helmets are the serious ones riding for sport. I'd also guess commuters who are going long

There's a couple takeaways from the first article. The cyclists with helmets are the serious ones riding for sport. I'd also guess commuters who are going long distances wear helmets. These cyclists are putting in far more miles than unhelmeted cyclists. I see the same thing in my city; very casual bikers don't wear helmets. Commuters and sport cyclists do. And those groups are putting in the most miles by far. If zero people rode bikes without helmets, you'd see 0 cyclists without helmets in the hospital. All those injured will be wearing helmets. It's a terrible measure.

Kim_Bruning 4y ago
You've got the gist of it. I'm trying to point out how .nl statistics come out funny because the infrastructure has been made so safe. Commuters actually make up the majority of cyclists in the Netherlands, there are a lot of them (cycle commuting is heavily encouraged for all kinds of people at all ages), and they don't wear helmets. Despite the large number of commuters on bicycles, commuting is (apparently) so safe that the commuters are heavily outnumbered by the sports cyclists in the hospital statistics. It is still a somewhat misleading measure of course. You probably should not conclude that wearing a helmet is highly unsafe. ;-) And... that's the point I'm making. Take measures from the Netherlands with a few grains of salt, because the situation is atypical. On the one hand it's really cool that it's atypical, but then you do need to watch out. The numbers don't line up with the intuition of someone from a typical cars-are-more-important-than-safety country at all; so it's easy to make funny assumptions and draw wrong conclusions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD-uImSUlPo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD-uImSUlPo <- eg. arbitrary busy cycle crossing(s?) in Utrecht. Seems to be mostly commuters and university students. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAKMNr0P5r4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAKMNr0P5r4 <- or eg here on dedicated paths, Nieuwegein. A lot of school children at that particular point in time by the look of it.
- grumple 4y ago
  What distance are these commuters going? What I see in those videos looks just like my university, a bunch of people on what we call beach cruisers going a very short distance. Their speed indicates they aren't going far and aren't in much of a rush. Are people in the Netherlands strict about arrival times? Do they usually move at a slower pace? In my city commuters go fast. We're going a few miles on a commute at least.
  - Kim_Bruning 4y ago
    They're going quite a few miles on bike alone. 30-60 min commutes are not uncommon. Kids, Adults, Seniors. Hot or cold, rain or shine. The time culture is similar to Germany: you have to be punctual. This means you need to leave on time in order to arrive on time. As a general rule in real-world traffic: Speeding might not actually help you arrive all that much quicker, you just feel like you do. An objective instrument (such as a GPS) may well inform you otherwise. Also, on a bike: if you're traveling longer distances, you need to pace yourself, lest you run out of steam half-way. The infrastructure is good though, in municipal zones the cycle distance (and time!) can often be shorter than the car-distance; because bikes can take more short-cuts and are easier to park. And for longer distances it's possible to eg. park your bike at a station and continue by bus or train. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3-tUMgwCt8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3-tUMgwCt8 <- bike parking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDXB0CY2tSQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDXB0CY2tSQ <- start of video narrates a commuting trip (bike+train) to a business park near Amsterdam. [edit] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UxCbmT9elk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UxCbmT9elk <- a commute with more biking in it

Kim_Bruning 4y ago

You've got the gist of it. I'm trying to point out how .nl statistics come out funny because the infrastructure has been made so safe. Commuters actually make up the majority of cyclists in the Netherlands, there are a lot of them (cycle commuting is heavily encouraged for all kinds of people at all ages), and they don't wear helmets. Despite the large number of commuters on bicycles, commuting is (apparently) so safe that the commuters are heavily outnumbered by the sports cyclists in the hospital statistics. It is still a somewhat misleading measure of course. You probably should not conclude that wearing a helmet is highly unsafe. ;-) And... that's the point I'm making. Take measures from the Netherlands with a few grains of salt, because the situation is atypical. On the one hand it's really cool that it's atypical, but then you do need to watch out. The numbers don't line up with the intuition of someone from a typical cars-are-more-important-than-safety country at all; so it's easy to make funny assumptions and draw wrong conclusions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD-uImSUlPo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD-uImSUlPo <- eg. arbitrary busy cycle crossing(s?) in Utrecht. Seems to be mostly commuters and university students. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAKMNr0P5r4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAKMNr0P5r4 <- or eg here on dedicated paths, Nieuwegein. A lot of school children at that particular point in time by the look of it.

grumple 4y ago
What distance are these commuters going? What I see in those videos looks just like my university, a bunch of people on what we call beach cruisers going a very short distance. Their speed indicates they aren't going far and aren't in much of a rush. Are people in the Netherlands strict about arrival times? Do they usually move at a slower pace? In my city commuters go fast. We're going a few miles on a commute at least.
- Kim_Bruning 4y ago
  They're going quite a few miles on bike alone. 30-60 min commutes are not uncommon. Kids, Adults, Seniors. Hot or cold, rain or shine. The time culture is similar to Germany: you have to be punctual. This means you need to leave on time in order to arrive on time. As a general rule in real-world traffic: Speeding might not actually help you arrive all that much quicker, you just feel like you do. An objective instrument (such as a GPS) may well inform you otherwise. Also, on a bike: if you're traveling longer distances, you need to pace yourself, lest you run out of steam half-way. The infrastructure is good though, in municipal zones the cycle distance (and time!) can often be shorter than the car-distance; because bikes can take more short-cuts and are easier to park. And for longer distances it's possible to eg. park your bike at a station and continue by bus or train. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3-tUMgwCt8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3-tUMgwCt8 <- bike parking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDXB0CY2tSQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDXB0CY2tSQ <- start of video narrates a commuting trip (bike+train) to a business park near Amsterdam. [edit] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UxCbmT9elk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UxCbmT9elk <- a commute with more biking in it