4 ms·

> I hired a union shop to build my house Aren’t most tradespeople self-employed? How do you have a union when you’re the boss?

gumby 4y ago
For my house, the general contractor I hired ran a union operation. I didn't hire individual welders and plasterers myself. Or perhaps I misunderstood the question. Unions are extremely important for those that don't have a single employer. For a lot of union jobs, you'd go to the union hall to find jobs, often by the day or week for jobs like stevedores (mostly gone now of course). For my house, the contractor had a network of people he would reach out to. At Terrajoule, we just advertised in the ordinary way or more commonly asked around, and then we looked at their credentials which generally meant a union ticket for safety critical jobs (which was most of them).
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  I don't get it - who does the union organise against if there are no managers? If they're just setting floor prices in an open market, that's a cartel. If they're setting industrial standards, that's a trade organisation.
  - Robin_Message 4y ago
    I get the impression that some American unions operate exactly as a cartel that also sets standards. I'm not against unions at all but the conflation of roles in the US is probably bad for workers long term. E.g. plumbers unions opposed waterless urinals, and then created a standard that required water pipes installing anyway - https://reason.com/2010/06/24/plumbers-unions-vs-waterless-u/ https://reason.com/2010/06/24/plumbers-unions-vs-waterless-u... Temporary job security, but long term makes people hate the union.
FunnyBadger 4y ago
In some places trades are self-employed with no union. Out in the boonies, for example, there isn't a critical mass to support the union's overhead upon the business. Also personal relationships are more important so both getting business and reputation for quality is more automatic (people talk if you are good or bad with an immediate result to your business as expected/presumed)

gumby 4y ago

For my house, the general contractor I hired ran a union operation. I didn't hire individual welders and plasterers myself. Or perhaps I misunderstood the question. Unions are extremely important for those that don't have a single employer. For a lot of union jobs, you'd go to the union hall to find jobs, often by the day or week for jobs like stevedores (mostly gone now of course). For my house, the contractor had a network of people he would reach out to. At Terrajoule, we just advertised in the ordinary way or more commonly asked around, and then we looked at their credentials which generally meant a union ticket for safety critical jobs (which was most of them).

chrisseaton 4y ago
I don't get it - who does the union organise against if there are no managers? If they're just setting floor prices in an open market, that's a cartel. If they're setting industrial standards, that's a trade organisation.
- Robin_Message 4y ago
  I get the impression that some American unions operate exactly as a cartel that also sets standards. I'm not against unions at all but the conflation of roles in the US is probably bad for workers long term. E.g. plumbers unions opposed waterless urinals, and then created a standard that required water pipes installing anyway - https://reason.com/2010/06/24/plumbers-unions-vs-waterless-u/ https://reason.com/2010/06/24/plumbers-unions-vs-waterless-u... Temporary job security, but long term makes people hate the union.

FunnyBadger 4y ago

In some places trades are self-employed with no union. Out in the boonies, for example, there isn't a critical mass to support the union's overhead upon the business. Also personal relationships are more important so both getting business and reputation for quality is more automatic (people talk if you are good or bad with an immediate result to your business as expected/presumed)