5 ms·

This feels a bit like the narrator in "Fight Club" explaining "the formula" car manufacturers use. > Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by t

by mabbo 4y ago

This feels a bit like the narrator in "Fight Club" explaining "the formula" car manufacturers use. > Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one. Pedal Me has done the math on what the average settlement for a traumatic brain injury to it's staff is going to be, multiplied by the probability of such an event, and has decided that they'll make more money without helmets. It ignores that much of the risk comes from outside of the drivers control. It ignores that driver behavior could otherwise be monitored to ensure safety. It would just be nice if it was honest- a driver with a helmet on doesn't match the sexy appeal they're going for. That people might say "if the driver needs a helmet why don't I, the rider?".

herodoturtle 4y ago
Let's see how that works out for them. Being clever. Edit: this was a tongue in cheek reference to the follow-up line in Fight Club (after the scene alluded to by OP).
- _Wintermute 4y ago
  They're hugely successful in London, so pretty well I guess?
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    Are they? First time I'm hearing about those. Is there actual demand for this? I live in their target area and I can't ever recall a time where I wanted to combine the risks & downsides of biking and ordering a cab. If I want to bike (note: I wouldn't recommend it in Central London), I'd get the Santander bikes or the various bike-for-hire ones littering the streets and just do it myself. If I wanted to spend time fiddling with my phone, I may as well just order an Uber instead of this thing? The prices would be similar considering they both have to pay drivers and driver wages represent a significant chunk of the sticker price of any manned transport-for-hire service so I really don't see why anyone would get this thing instead of a good old Uber.
    - _Wintermute 4y ago
      I see at least one or two of them every time I commute across London, they seem predominantly used for transporting items rather than people.
polote 4y ago
- teruakohatu 4y ago
  Comments like this do not make HN a better place. If you think helmets are a safety hazard, please make your case rather than mocking the OP.
  - moonbug 4y ago
    HN is not a good place.
    - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
      Hm. Pretty jaded towards here and everything, and I hadn't made my way to that, yet. I'm sure one can make a case for it — but do you really feel that way as a default? Why do you remain, if so?
scotty79 4y ago
I think the point is that you'll have less traumatic brain injuries without helmets than with helmets because you'll have less accidents over all and less severe ones. If a cyclist have a helmet he and everyone around him behaves dumber. This was researched.
- mabbo 4y ago
  > less traumatic brain injuries without helmets than with helmets because you'll have less accidents over all and less severe ones. Less accidents overall? I can believe that, maybe. But you'll need to back up "less severe ones". If a new driver who's phone distracted them for a split second is going to hit me on my bike, I feel like it's going to be more severe if I don't have a helmet on.
  - Tao332 4y ago
    > I feel like it's going to be more severe if I don't have a helmet on. Without the helmet you die on the road. With the helmet you die at the hospital.
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  > If a cyclist have a helmet he and everyone around him behaves dumber. This was researched. This seems like an extraordinary claim, given that safety systems in all other places have no such effects (or at least, not as significant). I would very much like to see this research, and even then I would be very wary of it. Either way, it's irrelevant given the levels of training that they are claiming they demand of their drivers. Given those claims, it's obvious that they helmets + training would be safer than just the training, if the training is good enough to protect the drivers at all.
  - sumeno 4y ago
    > This seems like an extraordinary claim, given that safety systems in all other places have no such effects (or at least, not as significant). There are examples where safety systems cause increased risk. Football helmets are one. The helmet doesn't protect very well against concussions and the presence of the helmet makes it more likely for players to use their heads as a weapon. I don't know about this bike helmet example since the actual data isn't available, but there are definitely times when counterintuitively having a safety feature is riskier.
Rygian 4y ago
I didn't remember that the real-life Ford Pinto case [1] was mentioned in Fight Club. Time to watch it again. [1] https://philosophia.uncg.edu/phi361-matteson/module-1-why-does-business-need-ethics/case-the-ford-pinto/ https://philosophia.uncg.edu/phi361-matteson/module-1-why-do...
nbernard 4y ago
> It ignores that much of the risk comes from outside of the drivers control. True; on the other hand I remember (I don't have a handy reference, sorry) a study showing that car drivers were leaving less space around cyclists wearing a helmet (hence increasing the probability of a collision) than around those without...

by mabbo 4y ago

herodoturtle 4y ago

Let's see how that works out for them. Being clever. Edit: this was a tongue in cheek reference to the follow-up line in Fight Club (after the scene alluded to by OP).

_Wintermute 4y ago
They're hugely successful in London, so pretty well I guess?
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  Are they? First time I'm hearing about those. Is there actual demand for this? I live in their target area and I can't ever recall a time where I wanted to combine the risks & downsides of biking and ordering a cab. If I want to bike (note: I wouldn't recommend it in Central London), I'd get the Santander bikes or the various bike-for-hire ones littering the streets and just do it myself. If I wanted to spend time fiddling with my phone, I may as well just order an Uber instead of this thing? The prices would be similar considering they both have to pay drivers and driver wages represent a significant chunk of the sticker price of any manned transport-for-hire service so I really don't see why anyone would get this thing instead of a good old Uber.
  - _Wintermute 4y ago
    I see at least one or two of them every time I commute across London, they seem predominantly used for transporting items rather than people.

polote 4y ago

teruakohatu 4y ago
Comments like this do not make HN a better place. If you think helmets are a safety hazard, please make your case rather than mocking the OP.
- moonbug 4y ago
  HN is not a good place.
  - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    Hm. Pretty jaded towards here and everything, and I hadn't made my way to that, yet. I'm sure one can make a case for it — but do you really feel that way as a default? Why do you remain, if so?

scotty79 4y ago

I think the point is that you'll have less traumatic brain injuries without helmets than with helmets because you'll have less accidents over all and less severe ones. If a cyclist have a helmet he and everyone around him behaves dumber. This was researched.

mabbo 4y ago
> less traumatic brain injuries without helmets than with helmets because you'll have less accidents over all and less severe ones. Less accidents overall? I can believe that, maybe. But you'll need to back up "less severe ones". If a new driver who's phone distracted them for a split second is going to hit me on my bike, I feel like it's going to be more severe if I don't have a helmet on.
- Tao332 4y ago
  > I feel like it's going to be more severe if I don't have a helmet on. Without the helmet you die on the road. With the helmet you die at the hospital.
tsimionescu 4y ago
> If a cyclist have a helmet he and everyone around him behaves dumber. This was researched. This seems like an extraordinary claim, given that safety systems in all other places have no such effects (or at least, not as significant). I would very much like to see this research, and even then I would be very wary of it. Either way, it's irrelevant given the levels of training that they are claiming they demand of their drivers. Given those claims, it's obvious that they helmets + training would be safer than just the training, if the training is good enough to protect the drivers at all.
- sumeno 4y ago
  > This seems like an extraordinary claim, given that safety systems in all other places have no such effects (or at least, not as significant). There are examples where safety systems cause increased risk. Football helmets are one. The helmet doesn't protect very well against concussions and the presence of the helmet makes it more likely for players to use their heads as a weapon. I don't know about this bike helmet example since the actual data isn't available, but there are definitely times when counterintuitively having a safety feature is riskier.

Rygian 4y ago

I didn't remember that the real-life Ford Pinto case [1] was mentioned in Fight Club. Time to watch it again. [1] https://philosophia.uncg.edu/phi361-matteson/module-1-why-does-business-need-ethics/case-the-ford-pinto/ https://philosophia.uncg.edu/phi361-matteson/module-1-why-do...

nbernard 4y ago

> It ignores that much of the risk comes from outside of the drivers control. True; on the other hand I remember (I don't have a handy reference, sorry) a study showing that car drivers were leaving less space around cyclists wearing a helmet (hence increasing the probability of a collision) than around those without...