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There are plenty who thinks that people who can't buy an air conditioner are lesser and don't deserve one. Bootstraps and all. I like to look at the bigger pic

There are plenty who thinks that people who can't buy an air conditioner are lesser and don't deserve one. Bootstraps and all. I like to look at the bigger picture, this will cause further instability in the world, which is bad for all of us. Besides the consumption of those who can afford an air conditioner drives climate change. You may be handing over the money in the shop, but it's the entire planet that subsidizes your purchase power, which is not cool, literally not cool.

giantg2 4y ago
"this will cause further instability in the world," What will? How?
- Comevius 4y ago
  Climate change, what else would we be talking about?
  - giantg2 4y ago
    I don't see lack of air-conditioning causing instability. Other aspects of global warming, sure.
    - Comevius 4y ago
      Most people live in houses with poor insulation and ventilation, because they either don't used to live in a hot climate or have air-conditioning. We don't build smarter because air-conditioning is cheaper, but a lot of people can't afford neither, and they are becoming necessary to have.
scrollaway 4y ago
Air conditioners nowadays can and should be bought as reversible heat pumps. It adds nothing to the purchase price and it replaces gas heating as a much more efficient way to heat a building. We should be installing heat pumps everywhere. Power consumption may go up in summer but would go way down in winter as efficiency is greatly increased. Unless your point is that poor people don’t deserve heating any more than they deserve cooling…
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Are there no places in the world without a need for central heating? If your only space conditioning load is air conditioning, you don’t need to have a reversing valve and defroster.
- xunn0026 4y ago
  Last I checked a heat pump is considerably more expensive than an air conditioner. And a regular air conditioner can probably only heat when the outside is not freezing. I would actually want to get a heat pump but it's basically prohibitive. Would be nice to replace them with a "cheaper" air conditioner unit.
  - zionic 4y ago
    The cost increase is marginal, but the benefits are enormous. Modern heat pumps work well down to -20F. If it’s that cold I don’t want to live there.
    - xunn0026 4y ago
      Hm, doesn't look marginal to me. A heat pump is like 5X-10x more costly and requires quite specialist install. An air conditioning unit is pretty easy to install by normal technicians.
      - mlyle 4y ago
        > A heat pump is like 5X-10x more costly and requires quite specialist install. When I shopped heat pumps, the actual unit was about 1.5x the cost of an equivalent air conditioner, and after installation the difference was even less. > requires quite specialist install. It's basically the same exact install.
- vanilla_nut 4y ago
  > power consumption … would go way down in winter as efficiency is greatly increased Not sure where you live, but in my experience living across the USA, I don’t think switching all heating to heat pumps in winter would reduce electricity usage. Most homes heat with propane, fuel oil, kerosene, or, in places like NYC, steam. There are certainly some homes out there with electric element heating but they are so expensive to run that they’re not very common. It might be better for emissions if we used renewable energy to generate all of that power. But we don’t right now.
samatman 4y ago
People who own computers capable of posting on hacker news don't get to tell the global south they can't install AC.
- glouwbug 4y ago
  A 6502 could post on hacker news
eru 4y ago
> There are plenty who thinks that people who can't buy an air conditioner are lesser and don't deserve one. Bootstraps and all. This sounds like a strawman.
- Comevius 4y ago
  It does, but people do a good job at making a strawman of themselves. These bootstrap folks are out there, and they are here. And I'm not just talking about the libertarians, plenty of liberals have trouble seeing the bigger picture. When it's painful to do that, we don't do it. You don't need to live in Nazi Germany to be have to ignorant for your own good, cognitive biases like just-world fallacy are enough. Climate change is plenty enough, it creates a lot of uncertainty and it brings the strawman out of people. Our defense mechanisms are rather predictable.
  - eru 4y ago
    You could try to pass the Ideological Turing Test.. https://www.econlib.org/archives/2011/06/the_ideological.html https://www.econlib.org/archives/2011/06/the_ideological.htm...

giantg2 4y ago

"this will cause further instability in the world," What will? How?

Comevius 4y ago
Climate change, what else would we be talking about?
- giantg2 4y ago
  I don't see lack of air-conditioning causing instability. Other aspects of global warming, sure.
  - Comevius 4y ago
    Most people live in houses with poor insulation and ventilation, because they either don't used to live in a hot climate or have air-conditioning. We don't build smarter because air-conditioning is cheaper, but a lot of people can't afford neither, and they are becoming necessary to have.

scrollaway 4y ago

Air conditioners nowadays can and should be bought as reversible heat pumps. It adds nothing to the purchase price and it replaces gas heating as a much more efficient way to heat a building. We should be installing heat pumps everywhere. Power consumption may go up in summer but would go way down in winter as efficiency is greatly increased. Unless your point is that poor people don’t deserve heating any more than they deserve cooling…

sokoloff 4y ago
Are there no places in the world without a need for central heating? If your only space conditioning load is air conditioning, you don’t need to have a reversing valve and defroster.
xunn0026 4y ago
Last I checked a heat pump is considerably more expensive than an air conditioner. And a regular air conditioner can probably only heat when the outside is not freezing. I would actually want to get a heat pump but it's basically prohibitive. Would be nice to replace them with a "cheaper" air conditioner unit.
- zionic 4y ago
  The cost increase is marginal, but the benefits are enormous. Modern heat pumps work well down to -20F. If it’s that cold I don’t want to live there.
  - xunn0026 4y ago
    Hm, doesn't look marginal to me. A heat pump is like 5X-10x more costly and requires quite specialist install. An air conditioning unit is pretty easy to install by normal technicians.
    - mlyle 4y ago
      > A heat pump is like 5X-10x more costly and requires quite specialist install. When I shopped heat pumps, the actual unit was about 1.5x the cost of an equivalent air conditioner, and after installation the difference was even less. > requires quite specialist install. It's basically the same exact install.
vanilla_nut 4y ago
> power consumption … would go way down in winter as efficiency is greatly increased Not sure where you live, but in my experience living across the USA, I don’t think switching all heating to heat pumps in winter would reduce electricity usage. Most homes heat with propane, fuel oil, kerosene, or, in places like NYC, steam. There are certainly some homes out there with electric element heating but they are so expensive to run that they’re not very common. It might be better for emissions if we used renewable energy to generate all of that power. But we don’t right now.

samatman 4y ago

People who own computers capable of posting on hacker news don't get to tell the global south they can't install AC.

glouwbug 4y ago
A 6502 could post on hacker news

eru 4y ago

> There are plenty who thinks that people who can't buy an air conditioner are lesser and don't deserve one. Bootstraps and all. This sounds like a strawman.

Comevius 4y ago
It does, but people do a good job at making a strawman of themselves. These bootstrap folks are out there, and they are here. And I'm not just talking about the libertarians, plenty of liberals have trouble seeing the bigger picture. When it's painful to do that, we don't do it. You don't need to live in Nazi Germany to be have to ignorant for your own good, cognitive biases like just-world fallacy are enough. Climate change is plenty enough, it creates a lot of uncertainty and it brings the strawman out of people. Our defense mechanisms are rather predictable.
- eru 4y ago
  You could try to pass the Ideological Turing Test.. https://www.econlib.org/archives/2011/06/the_ideological.html https://www.econlib.org/archives/2011/06/the_ideological.htm...