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The 'wire process' is not "multi-day-long", plus a huge number of banks now participate in Zelle, which can be used for instantaneous fund transfers with zero f

The 'wire process' is not "multi-day-long", plus a huge number of banks now participate in Zelle, which can be used for instantaneous fund transfers with zero fees. The biggest problem with Zelle is that it looks and feels like a circa-2002 web application.

web4 4y ago
many wires will be multi days long, encumbered by weekends, holidays, business hours, international checks, and occasional bounces (ask any company their experience with wires for international contractors). Zelle is between US banks only. some people live outside of the US, surprisingly.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  The EU has now mandated fast transfers between banks in the EU. So, for EU (23 countries) it's not a problem either. Sending money between banks is both a technical and a regulatory issue (and crypto is discovering why regulations exist at great cost to crypto users). However, "instant money transfer between banks" is not an unsolved issue.
  - web4 4y ago
    large (> 10K) bank and wire transfers within UK and EU are still in the order of days, not seconds. the last large bank transfer I did took 5 days without any way for me to track this transfer. the same amount I was able to transfer within crypto networks in 30 seconds and the transaction progress and it’s validation status was visible for the entire duration. the EU and UK banking system is far better than the US but still it is not a global payment processor network and API, hence why the web even in EU and UK relies on Stripe, visa, Apple Pay and PayPal and their corporate and centralized infrastructures. building an alternative infra that is not based on a single corporate entity is net positive for the world long term
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      - web4 4y ago
        it always comes back to the same argument: crypto is bad because a couple centralized companies handle this all for us just fine, and people in some countries already have great interbank transfers. also please lose the ad hominem, it is not needed.
        dmitriid 4y ago
        > it always comes back to the same argument: crypto is bad because No it always comes to the same argument: crypto bros argue that traditional finance is bad and their claims get refuted again, and again, and again, until they fall back to the same old tired "but what of the unbanked?!" No. Crypto will not save the unbanked. > also please lose the ad hominem, it is not needed. There was literally no ad hominem.
    - mutatio 4y ago
      This isn't true for transfers within the UK using Faster payments - upto £250K, near instantaneous.
      - web4 4y ago
        that limit depends on your bank. for large transfers you will often need to visit your branch in person which can be a multi day process. and yes UK faster payments system is great but it is not yet the backbone of global payment processing. the world is larger than the UK and as we continue to connect globally online and become more digitally nomadic there will be more need to pay users outside of a UK-to-UK bank system.
        FireBeyond 4y ago
        If you're the kind of person that regularly wires six digit sums in and out of your personal account, I suspect that one, if not both of the following are true: 1) that you've chosen your banking institution with a view to being expedient in such transfers, and 2) are on a known basis with sufficiently senior branch/bank personnel as to help establish parameters with them on legitimacy of such transfers.
whimsicalism 4y ago
You could Zelle your friend in Ukraine? Doubt it.

web4 4y ago

many wires will be multi days long, encumbered by weekends, holidays, business hours, international checks, and occasional bounces (ask any company their experience with wires for international contractors). Zelle is between US banks only. some people live outside of the US, surprisingly.

dmitriid 4y ago
The EU has now mandated fast transfers between banks in the EU. So, for EU (23 countries) it's not a problem either. Sending money between banks is both a technical and a regulatory issue (and crypto is discovering why regulations exist at great cost to crypto users). However, "instant money transfer between banks" is not an unsolved issue.
- web4 4y ago
  large (> 10K) bank and wire transfers within UK and EU are still in the order of days, not seconds. the last large bank transfer I did took 5 days without any way for me to track this transfer. the same amount I was able to transfer within crypto networks in 30 seconds and the transaction progress and it’s validation status was visible for the entire duration. the EU and UK banking system is far better than the US but still it is not a global payment processor network and API, hence why the web even in EU and UK relies on Stripe, visa, Apple Pay and PayPal and their corporate and centralized infrastructures. building an alternative infra that is not based on a single corporate entity is net positive for the world long term
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    - web4 4y ago
      it always comes back to the same argument: crypto is bad because a couple centralized companies handle this all for us just fine, and people in some countries already have great interbank transfers. also please lose the ad hominem, it is not needed.
      - dmitriid 4y ago
        > it always comes back to the same argument: crypto is bad because No it always comes to the same argument: crypto bros argue that traditional finance is bad and their claims get refuted again, and again, and again, until they fall back to the same old tired "but what of the unbanked?!" No. Crypto will not save the unbanked. > also please lose the ad hominem, it is not needed. There was literally no ad hominem.
  - mutatio 4y ago
    This isn't true for transfers within the UK using Faster payments - upto £250K, near instantaneous.
    - web4 4y ago
      that limit depends on your bank. for large transfers you will often need to visit your branch in person which can be a multi day process. and yes UK faster payments system is great but it is not yet the backbone of global payment processing. the world is larger than the UK and as we continue to connect globally online and become more digitally nomadic there will be more need to pay users outside of a UK-to-UK bank system.
      - FireBeyond 4y ago
        If you're the kind of person that regularly wires six digit sums in and out of your personal account, I suspect that one, if not both of the following are true: 1) that you've chosen your banking institution with a view to being expedient in such transfers, and 2) are on a known basis with sufficiently senior branch/bank personnel as to help establish parameters with them on legitimacy of such transfers.

whimsicalism 4y ago

You could Zelle your friend in Ukraine? Doubt it.