7 ms·

FreeBSD 9.0-RC1 Available...

92 points by Uncle_Sam 15y ago

SagelyGuru 15y ago
This is great news, well done! The existence of FreeBSD and other 'alternative' o/s and software in general is more valuable than it may appear at first sight. I would draw an analogy between variety of software and variety of a genetic pool, from which innovation and adaptability spring.
- DanBC 15y ago
  ...but some of those OSs (not necessarily talking about any of the BSDs here) are more like the Northern Hairy Nosed Wombats than a viable genetic pool. (http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/11343/0 http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/11343/0)
jedberg 15y ago
The last version of BSD I used regularly was 3.2, and I've missed it since. Although, I've somewhat gotten my fix by installing via ports on MacOS. Perhaps with this release, I'll try my hand at getting it to run on Ec2. Alternatively, does anyone know of a good cheap vps that runs BSD?
- clarkevans 15y ago
  I think RootBSD is the Linode of the FreeBSD community.
  - getsat 15y ago
    Not being able to provision on demand is a deal breaker, though.
- msbarnett 15y ago
  Tilaa.nl is probably the best one I've found. Very well supported and professional.
- brndnhy 15y ago
  http://arpnetworks.com/ http://arpnetworks.com/
clarkevans 15y ago
As of this year, I'm no longer a FreeBSD user. I've been a hold-out... finally converting over to Linux this year after years of denial. It was a very hard move for me. The problem is that FreeBSD developers are still fighting wars of the 90's. By and large, with the welcome exception of Colin Percival (of http://www.tarsnap.com/ http://www.tarsnap.com/ fame), they have not embraced virtualization. The only saving grace of FreeBSD is that it has adopted Sun's ZFS. This won't hold the fort for long though. For BSD-on-EC2 see http://www.daemonology.net/freebsd-on-ec2/ http://www.daemonology.net/freebsd-on-ec2/
- kennethv 15y ago
  http://wiki.freebsd.org/BHyVe http://wiki.freebsd.org/BHyVe looks promising.
- isocpprar 15y ago
  Have you ever used FreeBSD jails? I wish there was something as easy to use and flexible as that on Linux. The fact that each jail has minimal overhead and with dedupe on ZFS I can easily give every user their own "machine" while spending a lot less on hardware then a linux solution would require. Having said that I also wish I could run FreeBSD on EC2 however I haven't put my money where my mouth is. I'm sure if you and many others wanted it badly enough you could sponsor development to fix any current issues. Also it would probably help if someone made a large business case to Amazon to ensure that things were targeted towards FreeBSD that would help too. (i.e. not needing an ext2 filesystem for the user provided kernel on micro instances, etc)
  - Schmidt 15y ago
    How does OpenVZ or Linux Containers stack up to BSD's jails ?
    - wilsaj 15y ago
      The idea is very similar: you create a set of jails that behave as independent systems. Then every process started from a jail is tagged with a jail ID corresponding to the jail that the process was started from. All processes run in the same kernel and the jail ID gives the kernel just enough information to tell whether or not a process should have access to a given resource when sys calls are made. I've never used OpenVZ so I don't know how they compare in practice but I can say that FreeBSD jails worked beautifully when I was using them heavily (about 2 years ago). They are super easy to manage and were as stable as you'd expect in FreeBSD (you'd have to be trying really hard to knock them down).
btw0 15y ago
Fewer and fewer people are using FreeBSD, and it's starting to cause real problems. Bugs in ports can't get enough notice. Right now, `htop', an essential tool for me, has been malfunctioning for months: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/159728 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/159728 At the moment, the built-in GPU in newer CPU (core i3/i5/i7) simply doesn't work in FreeBSD, people have to buy discrete older cards for graphics. Yes, they are paying someone to work on the part in kernel which will make it possible to support these newer CPUs, but who knows when it will come.
- SkyMarshal 15y ago
  Is this problem due to fewer people using it, or fewer people contributing? I know there's a lot of overlap in open source, but the latter could be a real problem.
- rookiejet22 15y ago
  GEM/KMS has already been ported. The code in the BETAs has worked on my machines. It looks likely to be available in the next release. htop is written for Linux. It only works on FreeBSD due to Linux procfs emulation.
- omnipath 15y ago
  Maybe because it's a pain in the butt to install it? Honestly, I tried FreeBSD 8 two weeks ago, and until there's an easier to way to install it, I can't imagine many people will be interested in it.
  - Leynos 15y ago
    If you're looking for a desktop install of FreeBSD, I highly recommend PC-BSD. It's more or less to FreeBSD what Ubuntu is to Debian. It's still a little rough around the edges, but it's a lot more straightforward to get set up than vanilla FreeBSD.
    - sigzero 15y ago
      I was curious about BSD...found PC-BSD and it was easy enough to get going.
Getahobby 15y ago
I have used FreeBSD since 2.2. I used to laugh at the slashdot trolls saying BSD is dying but I really think it is dying. The commercial support is just not there.
- sgt 15y ago
  "Commercial support" as a selling point is really overrated. You can always get commercial support in any case, from FreeBSD specialists for hire. Apart from that, normal users will always be able to get support from the mailing lists, forums and so on. I'm happy with FreeBSD and there's nothing stopping me from using it both personally and for my businesses. I am not interested in FreeBSD on the desktop, however.
  - munchhausen 15y ago
    No commercial support makes the software a non-starter in most IT environments, that's the (sad) reality. FreeBSD is a good example of why that is a problem - while technically sound, it is at risk of becoming a fringe OS used only by a couple of enthusiasts and FreeBSD developers themselves. For a project that produces an OS, that is a big issue, since you need users to make sure your OS works on various hardware configurations, or else you will become an "experimental" OS like Plan 9.
    - sgt 15y ago
      With FreeBSD being so mature and old as it is, I think it's a given that the chance that it will continue for many years to come is very high. Sure enough, the risk is higher than going with "mainstream" Linux, but if you have the expertise, especially within the business, then it's a no-brainer if you will clearly benefit from all the great things FreeBSD has to offer. We're running FreeBSD with jails and ZFS etc. on a lot of servers and we're very happy with it. It's not hard for a Linux expert to pick up on. Anyway, that's my opinion.
derleth 15y ago
Everyone making comparisons between OSes involving a BSD always picks Linux as the 'other OS'. How about a good comparison between the various BSD flavors? Why would I pick FreeBSD over OpenBSD, NetBSD, DragonFly BSD, or PC-BSD?
- X-Istence 15y ago
  PC-BSD is FreeBSD with a nice coat on.
kinphi 15y ago
Check out distrowatch.com and see how bad freebsd has it... It is the only none linux os in the top twenty and it been there as long as I can remember. Its the only server in my datacenter that upgrades without a problem and runs and runs and runs.

92 points by Uncle_Sam 15y ago

This is great news, well done! The existence of FreeBSD and other 'alternative' o/s and software in general is more valuable than it may appear at first sight. I would draw an analogy between variety of software and variety of a genetic pool, from which innovation and adaptability spring.

DanBC 15y ago
...but some of those OSs (not necessarily talking about any of the BSDs here) are more like the Northern Hairy Nosed Wombats than a viable genetic pool. (http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/11343/0 http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/11343/0)

jedberg 15y ago

The last version of BSD I used regularly was 3.2, and I've missed it since. Although, I've somewhat gotten my fix by installing via ports on MacOS. Perhaps with this release, I'll try my hand at getting it to run on Ec2. Alternatively, does anyone know of a good cheap vps that runs BSD?

clarkevans 15y ago
I think RootBSD is the Linode of the FreeBSD community.
- getsat 15y ago
  Not being able to provision on demand is a deal breaker, though.
msbarnett 15y ago
Tilaa.nl is probably the best one I've found. Very well supported and professional.
brndnhy 15y ago
http://arpnetworks.com/ http://arpnetworks.com/

clarkevans 15y ago

As of this year, I'm no longer a FreeBSD user. I've been a hold-out... finally converting over to Linux this year after years of denial. It was a very hard move for me. The problem is that FreeBSD developers are still fighting wars of the 90's. By and large, with the welcome exception of Colin Percival (of http://www.tarsnap.com/ http://www.tarsnap.com/ fame), they have not embraced virtualization. The only saving grace of FreeBSD is that it has adopted Sun's ZFS. This won't hold the fort for long though. For BSD-on-EC2 see http://www.daemonology.net/freebsd-on-ec2/ http://www.daemonology.net/freebsd-on-ec2/

kennethv 15y ago
http://wiki.freebsd.org/BHyVe http://wiki.freebsd.org/BHyVe looks promising.
isocpprar 15y ago
Have you ever used FreeBSD jails? I wish there was something as easy to use and flexible as that on Linux. The fact that each jail has minimal overhead and with dedupe on ZFS I can easily give every user their own "machine" while spending a lot less on hardware then a linux solution would require. Having said that I also wish I could run FreeBSD on EC2 however I haven't put my money where my mouth is. I'm sure if you and many others wanted it badly enough you could sponsor development to fix any current issues. Also it would probably help if someone made a large business case to Amazon to ensure that things were targeted towards FreeBSD that would help too. (i.e. not needing an ext2 filesystem for the user provided kernel on micro instances, etc)
- Schmidt 15y ago
  How does OpenVZ or Linux Containers stack up to BSD's jails ?
  - wilsaj 15y ago
    The idea is very similar: you create a set of jails that behave as independent systems. Then every process started from a jail is tagged with a jail ID corresponding to the jail that the process was started from. All processes run in the same kernel and the jail ID gives the kernel just enough information to tell whether or not a process should have access to a given resource when sys calls are made. I've never used OpenVZ so I don't know how they compare in practice but I can say that FreeBSD jails worked beautifully when I was using them heavily (about 2 years ago). They are super easy to manage and were as stable as you'd expect in FreeBSD (you'd have to be trying really hard to knock them down).

btw0 15y ago

Fewer and fewer people are using FreeBSD, and it's starting to cause real problems. Bugs in ports can't get enough notice. Right now, `htop', an essential tool for me, has been malfunctioning for months: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/159728 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/159728 At the moment, the built-in GPU in newer CPU (core i3/i5/i7) simply doesn't work in FreeBSD, people have to buy discrete older cards for graphics. Yes, they are paying someone to work on the part in kernel which will make it possible to support these newer CPUs, but who knows when it will come.

SkyMarshal 15y ago
Is this problem due to fewer people using it, or fewer people contributing? I know there's a lot of overlap in open source, but the latter could be a real problem.
rookiejet22 15y ago
GEM/KMS has already been ported. The code in the BETAs has worked on my machines. It looks likely to be available in the next release. htop is written for Linux. It only works on FreeBSD due to Linux procfs emulation.
omnipath 15y ago
Maybe because it's a pain in the butt to install it? Honestly, I tried FreeBSD 8 two weeks ago, and until there's an easier to way to install it, I can't imagine many people will be interested in it.
- Leynos 15y ago
  If you're looking for a desktop install of FreeBSD, I highly recommend PC-BSD. It's more or less to FreeBSD what Ubuntu is to Debian. It's still a little rough around the edges, but it's a lot more straightforward to get set up than vanilla FreeBSD.
  - sigzero 15y ago
    I was curious about BSD...found PC-BSD and it was easy enough to get going.

Getahobby 15y ago

I have used FreeBSD since 2.2. I used to laugh at the slashdot trolls saying BSD is dying but I really think it is dying. The commercial support is just not there.

sgt 15y ago
"Commercial support" as a selling point is really overrated. You can always get commercial support in any case, from FreeBSD specialists for hire. Apart from that, normal users will always be able to get support from the mailing lists, forums and so on. I'm happy with FreeBSD and there's nothing stopping me from using it both personally and for my businesses. I am not interested in FreeBSD on the desktop, however.
- munchhausen 15y ago
  No commercial support makes the software a non-starter in most IT environments, that's the (sad) reality. FreeBSD is a good example of why that is a problem - while technically sound, it is at risk of becoming a fringe OS used only by a couple of enthusiasts and FreeBSD developers themselves. For a project that produces an OS, that is a big issue, since you need users to make sure your OS works on various hardware configurations, or else you will become an "experimental" OS like Plan 9.
  - sgt 15y ago
    With FreeBSD being so mature and old as it is, I think it's a given that the chance that it will continue for many years to come is very high. Sure enough, the risk is higher than going with "mainstream" Linux, but if you have the expertise, especially within the business, then it's a no-brainer if you will clearly benefit from all the great things FreeBSD has to offer. We're running FreeBSD with jails and ZFS etc. on a lot of servers and we're very happy with it. It's not hard for a Linux expert to pick up on. Anyway, that's my opinion.

derleth 15y ago

Everyone making comparisons between OSes involving a BSD always picks Linux as the 'other OS'. How about a good comparison between the various BSD flavors? Why would I pick FreeBSD over OpenBSD, NetBSD, DragonFly BSD, or PC-BSD?

X-Istence 15y ago
PC-BSD is FreeBSD with a nice coat on.

kinphi 15y ago

Check out distrowatch.com and see how bad freebsd has it... It is the only none linux os in the top twenty and it been there as long as I can remember. Its the only server in my datacenter that upgrades without a problem and runs and runs and runs.