4 ms·

Batteries work at night.

by WalterGR 4y ago

seydor 4y ago
1. They need 2-3x renewable capacity to charge 2. You need to buy the batteries
- mixermachine 4y ago
  Aren't batteries at something like >90% efficiency? Were does the 2-3x energy come from?
  - freemint 4y ago
    I suspect he means production energy capacity to account for the charging when energy is being produced.
- jillesvangurp 4y ago
  1) nonsense. Charging batteries is very efficient. About 90-95% efficient. The idea is to use peaks in power to charge the batteries. Those peaks already exist and don't require new capacity. Every time people complain about broken wind mills, what's actually happening is that they are being turned off to reduce the output: grids are currently bad at handling supply peaks from wind and solar. 2) Yes, lots of them. Luckily, people are buying EVs (aka. batteries with wheels). Soon in the order of tens of gwh per year. Those batteries will be perfect for absorbing supply peaks (just plug the car in). And a growing number of cars can also return power to the grid. And mostly the second life for EV batteries is grid storage after they survive the car they were in. Of course other storage solutions are available as well.
  - natmaka 4y ago
    Indeed, "vehicle-to-grid" has a huge potential: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid
    - Gwypaas 4y ago
      I would say no. Your expensive battery on wheels with a complete integrated system is not something you want to abuse. Unless it can take for the entire lifetime of the car without significant degradation. Compare this to racks on land with far less stringent requirements. One the other hand, EVs can fill the same role by simply being smart consumers. You don't even lose any round trip efficiency - because storing energy in the car's battery is the work being done. Consider a future where you can set your car to have at least 60% each morning and then 100% on Saturday, because you are going on a trip. The car will then optimize the charging times for the lowest cost. Thus balancing the grid. Dynamic demand has the same effect on the grid as dispatchable energy. No need to complicate it further.
      - natmaka 4y ago
        Discharged electricity will be of higher value than it was while charging, largely compensating for the "abuse". Deploying dedicated racks-on-land with the proper total capacity and throughput would be a nightmare, without even considering locality. And yes, a "minimal charge-level" parameter will be enforced. Dynamic demand offers low-hanging fruits, and then it becomes more and more a constraint... alleviated by dispatchable energy.
himinlomax 4y ago
Cool, now price them over a whole grid for the case where there's no wind for a few days, and that rare event called "winter" occurs in Germany.
ohgodplsno 4y ago
"We don't want spent radioactive fuel" says man who advocates for horribly polluting, resource wasting, giant toxic fire risks
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

Batteries work at night.

seydor 4y ago

1. They need 2-3x renewable capacity to charge 2. You need to buy the batteries

mixermachine 4y ago
Aren't batteries at something like >90% efficiency? Were does the 2-3x energy come from?
- freemint 4y ago
  I suspect he means production energy capacity to account for the charging when energy is being produced.
jillesvangurp 4y ago
1) nonsense. Charging batteries is very efficient. About 90-95% efficient. The idea is to use peaks in power to charge the batteries. Those peaks already exist and don't require new capacity. Every time people complain about broken wind mills, what's actually happening is that they are being turned off to reduce the output: grids are currently bad at handling supply peaks from wind and solar. 2) Yes, lots of them. Luckily, people are buying EVs (aka. batteries with wheels). Soon in the order of tens of gwh per year. Those batteries will be perfect for absorbing supply peaks (just plug the car in). And a growing number of cars can also return power to the grid. And mostly the second life for EV batteries is grid storage after they survive the car they were in. Of course other storage solutions are available as well.
- natmaka 4y ago
  Indeed, "vehicle-to-grid" has a huge potential: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid
  - Gwypaas 4y ago
    I would say no. Your expensive battery on wheels with a complete integrated system is not something you want to abuse. Unless it can take for the entire lifetime of the car without significant degradation. Compare this to racks on land with far less stringent requirements. One the other hand, EVs can fill the same role by simply being smart consumers. You don't even lose any round trip efficiency - because storing energy in the car's battery is the work being done. Consider a future where you can set your car to have at least 60% each morning and then 100% on Saturday, because you are going on a trip. The car will then optimize the charging times for the lowest cost. Thus balancing the grid. Dynamic demand has the same effect on the grid as dispatchable energy. No need to complicate it further.
    - natmaka 4y ago
      Discharged electricity will be of higher value than it was while charging, largely compensating for the "abuse". Deploying dedicated racks-on-land with the proper total capacity and throughput would be a nightmare, without even considering locality. And yes, a "minimal charge-level" parameter will be enforced. Dynamic demand offers low-hanging fruits, and then it becomes more and more a constraint... alleviated by dispatchable energy.

himinlomax 4y ago

Cool, now price them over a whole grid for the case where there's no wind for a few days, and that rare event called "winter" occurs in Germany.

ohgodplsno 4y ago

"We don't want spent radioactive fuel" says man who advocates for horribly polluting, resource wasting, giant toxic fire risks

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]