5 ms·

The Catholics in your example think they're doing the right thing, the Thelemites know that they're doing the WRONG thing on purpose for any given occult operat

The Catholics in your example think they're doing the right thing, the Thelemites know that they're doing the WRONG thing on purpose for any given occult operation. I am more knowledgeable on OTO, but Thelema falls into an area of clandestine Masonry in which all non-initiates are regarded as sub-human animals. The entire function of Crowley's work is to set changes into motion to create an theocratic occult elite totalitarian state, the "Age of Horus." The primary acts to bring about material change from mental will (aka magick) are all SEXUAL, the eucharist for the assemblies is derived of semen, menstrual blood, and fecal matter baked into wafers. It's hard to put metaphysical ideas into elevator pitch style explanation, but I assure you, those who work Crowley's programs are intentionally and knowingly doing awful things for selfish means in horrible ways that no sane person could dream of. Let's put it another way, if you knew Jimmy Saville, Jimmy Page, and various Danish nobility (see: Dutrox incident) had a secret society to commit sexual crimes in a ritualized fashion to bring about metaphysical changes, would that resemble anything you could remotely called "good"?

trasz 4y ago
And in your opinion this petty bullshit is somehow worse than organized child abuse, discrimination and dehumanization of minorities and woman and straight out terrorism associated with a certain universally tolerated, and often widely privileged, church?
- IdEntities 4y ago
  Organized child abuse, racism, and misogyny are certainly Crowley's bread and butter as well, and I can only assume you skipped over or aren't aware of the Dutroux affair mentioned by the parent, which I'm assuming you would not dismiss as "petty," and goes far beyond any of the worst allegations I've heard leveled at the Catholic clergy. The simple and obvious conclusion here is that child abuse and malicious predatory behavior is bad whether it's coming from Crowleyites & Satanists or from the Catholic Church. Who knows, perhaps a not insignificant number of the latter are even inspired by and in league with the former.
  - devmor 4y ago
    I've been well acquainted with a couple of very serious Thelema adherents for most of my life, and they make it clear in no uncertain terms that as a group they will happily murder and hide the death of anyone who would abuse a child. People who harm the innocent are viewed as the ultimate evil. Not sure what experience you have with Crowley's followers but it sounds more like the things that Christians say about them than what they're actually about.
    - IdEntities 4y ago
      Extremely funny to see this kind of post in the same thread where people are painting the entirety of the Catholic Church with the same brush as pedophile enablers at the Vatican.
      - devmor 4y ago
        This just in - different people can have different opinions about different groups. Shocking, I know.
morpheos137 4y ago
one of the more disturbing things about the last 5-10 years is the apparent normalisation of the sinister occult. Black magic is not a game and is not all fake. The goal of genuine practitioners is no less than a violent installation of a new world order at first by covert and subtle means, later by increasingly overt subversion. At this point our goose is cooked. The pot is boiling and the frog is dead. All that is left is the Apocalypse, or unmasking.
- riffic 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic I would have thought HN was above lurid, unsubstantiated satanic panic tales. edit after reading the replies: orange site is the worst subreddit.
  - leashless 4y ago
    Have you seen the average piece about the blockchain?
  - IdEntities 4y ago
    "Satanic Panic" has been a classic deflection mechanism ever since Michael Aquino helped jump start it by going on Oprah's show in the 80s dressed like a goofy vampire. Just a classic fallacy of composition, where if any concerns over Satanism were proven to be overwrought or misplaced, well, they all must be. Whether black magic actually works or not, there is overwhelming evidence that many elites believe it does and act accordingly. I'll refrain from detailing the thread too much by delving into the compromised nature of Wikipedia, which, for example, deleted its article on Aquino and redirected it to "Temple of Set."
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - trasz 4y ago
      Thing is, all those "concerns" proved to be bullshit, created by a certain church to cover its own crimes, such as rampant pedophilia and promotion of numerous social pathologies. Remember when Vatican granted diplomatic immunity to a pedophile to protect him from law enforcement? That's the people who invented the satanic panic.
leashless 4y ago
Erm. Look, I can't say a lot to correct you on this for [reasons] but, believe me, these organisations are nothing like as Early Norwegian Black Metal as you're making them out to be. Esoteric Masonry is often mind numbingly boring, and I don't think any of those groups have held significant power since before WW2. Possibly since the Victorian era. And making the link to Dutroux is bullshit. You want to see large scale occult conspiracy, I suggest looking at the Catholic Church. The various occult orders, with the possible exception of scientology, are largely Lodge 49. Once in a while something goes more "organised crime network with occult overtones" - one or two of those in the news right now - but believe me nothing paramasonic has ever taken on that character that I am aware of.
metalforever 4y ago
Come on, I can't honestly believe you are making this argument in good faith. This is coming from a perspective of religious bigotry. Most thelemites that I know do believe that they are doing the right thing. The "sexual" idea in this case is an analogy to the enlightenment concept of the "unification of opposites". The temple furniture in the OTO's Gnostic Mass is set up to resemble the Tree of Life. The Unification during the ritual occurs to represent unification above the abyss if looking at the temple furniture and ritual in earnest. There's nothing wrong with this concept - similar ones are present in other (popular) religions. These people aren't doing anything awful. They're just choosing to go about enlightenment using a different or alternative path ("All Roads Lead to Rome"). A lot of the OTO is just nerdy types of IT people. They're your coworkers in the office. Finally, what you said about "subhuman animals" is just a complete fabrication. I'm not even sure where you got that from. It's not in any of the literature.
evilDagmar 4y ago
You've been reading too many pearl-clutching articles. There's quite a bit that Crowley wrote that was clearly just to separate people who would believe whatever they were told or read from critical thinkers who could be expected to handle some light decision-making. It's also clear he really enjoyed the sensationalism of it, so from his standpoint writing something that contained a paragraph you weren't meant to believe and then five paragraphs explaining how much of an idiot you'd have to be to believe it just to watch the dullards run in circles was a jolly afternoon's work.

trasz 4y ago

And in your opinion this petty bullshit is somehow worse than organized child abuse, discrimination and dehumanization of minorities and woman and straight out terrorism associated with a certain universally tolerated, and often widely privileged, church?

IdEntities 4y ago
Organized child abuse, racism, and misogyny are certainly Crowley's bread and butter as well, and I can only assume you skipped over or aren't aware of the Dutroux affair mentioned by the parent, which I'm assuming you would not dismiss as "petty," and goes far beyond any of the worst allegations I've heard leveled at the Catholic clergy. The simple and obvious conclusion here is that child abuse and malicious predatory behavior is bad whether it's coming from Crowleyites & Satanists or from the Catholic Church. Who knows, perhaps a not insignificant number of the latter are even inspired by and in league with the former.
- devmor 4y ago
  I've been well acquainted with a couple of very serious Thelema adherents for most of my life, and they make it clear in no uncertain terms that as a group they will happily murder and hide the death of anyone who would abuse a child. People who harm the innocent are viewed as the ultimate evil. Not sure what experience you have with Crowley's followers but it sounds more like the things that Christians say about them than what they're actually about.
  - IdEntities 4y ago
    Extremely funny to see this kind of post in the same thread where people are painting the entirety of the Catholic Church with the same brush as pedophile enablers at the Vatican.
    - devmor 4y ago
      This just in - different people can have different opinions about different groups. Shocking, I know.

morpheos137 4y ago

one of the more disturbing things about the last 5-10 years is the apparent normalisation of the sinister occult. Black magic is not a game and is not all fake. The goal of genuine practitioners is no less than a violent installation of a new world order at first by covert and subtle means, later by increasingly overt subversion. At this point our goose is cooked. The pot is boiling and the frog is dead. All that is left is the Apocalypse, or unmasking.

riffic 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic I would have thought HN was above lurid, unsubstantiated satanic panic tales. edit after reading the replies: orange site is the worst subreddit.
- leashless 4y ago
  Have you seen the average piece about the blockchain?
- IdEntities 4y ago
  "Satanic Panic" has been a classic deflection mechanism ever since Michael Aquino helped jump start it by going on Oprah's show in the 80s dressed like a goofy vampire. Just a classic fallacy of composition, where if any concerns over Satanism were proven to be overwrought or misplaced, well, they all must be. Whether black magic actually works or not, there is overwhelming evidence that many elites believe it does and act accordingly. I'll refrain from detailing the thread too much by delving into the compromised nature of Wikipedia, which, for example, deleted its article on Aquino and redirected it to "Temple of Set."
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - trasz 4y ago
    Thing is, all those "concerns" proved to be bullshit, created by a certain church to cover its own crimes, such as rampant pedophilia and promotion of numerous social pathologies. Remember when Vatican granted diplomatic immunity to a pedophile to protect him from law enforcement? That's the people who invented the satanic panic.

leashless 4y ago

Erm. Look, I can't say a lot to correct you on this for [reasons] but, believe me, these organisations are nothing like as Early Norwegian Black Metal as you're making them out to be. Esoteric Masonry is often mind numbingly boring, and I don't think any of those groups have held significant power since before WW2. Possibly since the Victorian era. And making the link to Dutroux is bullshit. You want to see large scale occult conspiracy, I suggest looking at the Catholic Church. The various occult orders, with the possible exception of scientology, are largely Lodge 49. Once in a while something goes more "organised crime network with occult overtones" - one or two of those in the news right now - but believe me nothing paramasonic has ever taken on that character that I am aware of.

metalforever 4y ago

Come on, I can't honestly believe you are making this argument in good faith. This is coming from a perspective of religious bigotry. Most thelemites that I know do believe that they are doing the right thing. The "sexual" idea in this case is an analogy to the enlightenment concept of the "unification of opposites". The temple furniture in the OTO's Gnostic Mass is set up to resemble the Tree of Life. The Unification during the ritual occurs to represent unification above the abyss if looking at the temple furniture and ritual in earnest. There's nothing wrong with this concept - similar ones are present in other (popular) religions. These people aren't doing anything awful. They're just choosing to go about enlightenment using a different or alternative path ("All Roads Lead to Rome"). A lot of the OTO is just nerdy types of IT people. They're your coworkers in the office. Finally, what you said about "subhuman animals" is just a complete fabrication. I'm not even sure where you got that from. It's not in any of the literature.

evilDagmar 4y ago

You've been reading too many pearl-clutching articles. There's quite a bit that Crowley wrote that was clearly just to separate people who would believe whatever they were told or read from critical thinkers who could be expected to handle some light decision-making. It's also clear he really enjoyed the sensationalism of it, so from his standpoint writing something that contained a paragraph you weren't meant to believe and then five paragraphs explaining how much of an idiot you'd have to be to believe it just to watch the dullards run in circles was a jolly afternoon's work.