> You make it sound that the "suffering of their fellow citizens" is somehow the fault of Ukraine's leaders Yes, it is, obviously! India was once the wealthies

> You make it sound that the "suffering of their fellow citizens" is somehow the fault of Ukraine's leaders Yes, it is, obviously! India was once the wealthiest country in the world. It was then conquered by the British who ruled over them for 300+ years to become one of the poorest country in the world by the time the British left. Why? Weak, incompetent leadership that lacked vision. Incompetent politicians ignorantly or deliberately create suffering for their country. This war happened because of the political incompetence of the current Ukrainian leadership, and perhaps even because of their own selfish ambition to cement their political positions. > ... and they should just surrender to Russia's interests, which would somehow would end the suffering? Temporarily, if need be. But don't consider it as a surrender but a strategic retreat. International pressure against Russia can be diplomatically used to soften some of the demands they make, but yes, Ukraine will have to yield more. And whether the suffering ends really depends on the kind of leadership Ukraine's politician are capable of. Right now, Russia is winning the war (it is clear that they are not looking to occupy all of Ukraine and are willing to carve up the country in the long term. They are selectively targeting and occupying areas of Ukraine they consider necessary to protect its strategic interest, in case whatever remains of Ukraine after the war does manage to join NATO in the distant future). > Ukraine snubs Russia, which it has the right to do, therefore Russia is allowed to invade? It's the reality of the world order the super-powers have created for themselves. Yes, it is unfair. As for Iraq or Afghanistan, the point was that they caught the interest of the superpowers, but their political leadership was politically incompetent to deal with them appropriately and couldn't protect their own country's interest. Leaders of both nation snubbed the superpowers. And look at them now. That's what the Americans and Russians will do to Ukraine too, unless Ukrainian politicians understand and accept the reality of their own standing in the world order.