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I'm about to be a dad this year. Every day as the date approaches, I am getting more excited and scared at the same time. Never felt anything like this. I recal

by jsnk 4y ago

I'm about to be a dad this year. Every day as the date approaches, I am getting more excited and scared at the same time. Never felt anything like this. I recall the pure happiness without an ounce of worry when I was a kid, and I also get happy that I might have a chance to give this to my kid. At the same time, I feel a lot of pressure that I will fall short of being a good dad. I am yet to experience being a real dad yet, but I think this really might be the greatest enjoyment in my life.

nvusuvu 4y ago
Congrats, you got this. Being a dad has brought my life joy and meaning beyond words. You'll make mistakes, we all do, but keep loving them, and your spouse, and you'll do great.
deltaonefour 4y ago
It might be. The child lasts far beyond 20 years and within that time frame there will be ups and there can be downs. Really bad downs. A child can grow up to hate you, be your enemy, become a criminal, become addicted to drigs. It is not a guarantee for happiness. Statistically speaking though, when measured scientifically people in general are actually found to be overall less happy with kids. This is the scientific measure. But when you ask people directly whether or not they're happier with kids, they almost always say they are. It's as if they aren't fully aware about how unhappy they are with the kids. It's really hard to define whether they aren't or are happier. Is delusional happiness actually happiness? Isn't all happiness some sort of delusion anyway? Hard to say. Also keep in mind that although in general people are less happy with kids, there is also correlation with how well you're doing economically. If you're rich you're more likely to happier with kids.
- csdvrx 4y ago
  > But when you ask people directly whether or not they're happier with kids, they almost always say they are. It's as if they aren't fully aware about how unhappy they are with the kids. It's as if having kids rewrote the utility function of the person, introducing a bug to pass the test suite ("self satisfaction") to allow for a wider diffusion of the behavior ("I'm so much happier now, trust me it's wonderful!"), yet in a flawed way (i.e. that's not robust to scientific inquiry, as you observed)
  - deltaonefour 4y ago
    To clarify the scientific inquiry that measures happiness is simply asking people how happy they were on a scale of 1 to 10. On average people with kids would rate their happiness lower, but when these people are asked whether having kids made them happier they would say yes. So are they happier? Not sure. Could be exactly as you say, but in one sense that bug may actually mean they are truly happier.
    - v-erne 4y ago
      >> but when these people are asked whether having kids made them happier they would say yes This can be quite easily explained by peer pressure - You are expected to treat children as precious little gifts from god, and speaking ill about them makes you look bad in the eyes of your peers.
      - deltaonefour 4y ago
        Anecdotally I've asked close friends for genuine answers and from my perspective they seem convinced they are happier. That being said I have also (fewer) close friends who have told me they are less happy. So you have a point.
        v-erne 4y ago
        I'm sure that there are people that genuinly create happines from interacting with and having children. Just like there are people that takes pleasure in hurting themselves. The real tragedy is You cannot know which one are You until is too late.
        agent008t 4y ago
        They are in a situation they now cannot realistically change and that they are 'supposed' to enjoy. There is a lot of pressure to convince themselves they are now happier 'overall', even if actually each of their days is now less happy. The fact is, you will encounter plenty of misery in life regardless. You should not choose based on what makes you happy, but arguably based on what kinds of misery you are more suited to - the misery of having children or the misery of not having children.
- getoj 4y ago
  Becoming a parent means that you now have a person whose wellbeing is more important to you than your own happiness. I don’t think it’s a contradiction to say (a) that I’d be happier if my daughter had never existed, and (b) that I don’t care about (a) one bit.
  - deltaonefour 4y ago
    The real test is if you'd say the same thing given knowledge that you would be unhappy before you had your daughter, and which answer would be more valid? The answer now or the answer you would give before you had your daughter?
    - getoj 4y ago
      - If I were offered the choice to wind back the clock and have her not exist, I wouldn't choose it, even if it would make me happier on the whole. - If I were to travel back in time and convey that information to my past self, it would make him want a child more, not less. - If you were to travel back in time and tell my past self "I talked to your future self, he said he'd probably be happier without a kid," and he believed you, then he might choose the opposite path. But that's because you didn't give him all the information. In other words, given full and accurate knowledge of this future, I would not choose the other future. Once you're a parent you can never not be a parent again, not even in a hypothetical multiple-worlds time-travel scenario.
      - deltaonefour 4y ago
        >Once you're a parent you can never not be a parent again, not even in a hypothetical multiple-worlds time-travel scenario. This is not true at all. It's not a logical answer. Based of what you just said above, I believe you are being honest but I believe your biases are creeping into the answer and therefore cannot trust it. I'm sorry. The reason is because if you erased your memory of being a parent with time travel, you actually CAN not be a parent. This is a very legitimate possibility for anyone. You are letting your emotions interfere with logic. That being said, I am interested in this: >If I were to travel back in time and convey that information to my past self, it would make him want a child more, not less. You would tell your past self that you would be less happy, but you would be able to convince him to have a kid regardless as if he could understand your reasoning through you simply communicating vocally to him. My question to you is why didn't you try communicating this knowledge to me? Why do say vague things like "Once you're a parent you can never not be a parent again" without clearly elucidating the logic behind it? I am very much interested in this logic and would like to hear it despite the fact that I think you're answer has the possibility of being biased. If your logic is convincing then of course you're not biased and I am wrong. But honestly right now because of what you said, it just appears you're biased, but I would very much like to be proven wrong.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- haihaibye 4y ago
  There are multiple types of happiness, eg present short term mood vs overall life satisfaction. In your study parentd give a lower 1-10 ranking when asked how they feel in a particular moment, on random timers. When cleaning up shit of someone you love, sure it sucks at that particular moment but your life's full of meaning.
  - v-erne 4y ago
    I'm not sure I buy that - Humans can create meaning out of everything - You do not need children for that (there are some that spend years meditating in literal caves and claims that their life is also full of meaning). So given that we can have two persons with life full of meaning, one of which is feeling down most of the time, and both of them somehow selected this life for themselves - its not quite hard to point at not having children as a better way of life. I speak of course from the point of view of me/solicity - others should have as many children as it is required to keep my precious useless stuff mass produced overseas to keep numbing consumptionism continuing until nothingness takes me back.
    - deltaonefour 4y ago
      This is true, but if you think in terms of evolution and natural selection we should be biologically inclined to have certain desires that motivate us to have children above other desires. "Meaning" is more of a creative term, but in actuality much of how we behave is dictated by biology.
      - agent008t 4y ago
        For biological inclination, a sex drive is all that's required to ensure children are produced. Biology doesn't care if you are happy or not afterwards.
        v-erne 4y ago
        A bit of interesting off-topic : I think its a disservice to general knowledge propagation to use personification when taking about systems. People can care, biology and systems in general cannot, they simply have consequences. I blame Richard Dawkins for this (and his very badly titled Selfish Gene)
mcjoken 4y ago
Our little guy just passed his first birthday and it's been such a fun and stressful time. I think the fact that you're concerned about being a good dad means you'll do well. For me anyway, that feeling of pressure grew but so does the enjoyment and fun! Congrats and enjoy it!

by jsnk 4y ago

nvusuvu 4y ago

Congrats, you got this. Being a dad has brought my life joy and meaning beyond words. You'll make mistakes, we all do, but keep loving them, and your spouse, and you'll do great.

deltaonefour 4y ago

It might be. The child lasts far beyond 20 years and within that time frame there will be ups and there can be downs. Really bad downs. A child can grow up to hate you, be your enemy, become a criminal, become addicted to drigs. It is not a guarantee for happiness. Statistically speaking though, when measured scientifically people in general are actually found to be overall less happy with kids. This is the scientific measure. But when you ask people directly whether or not they're happier with kids, they almost always say they are. It's as if they aren't fully aware about how unhappy they are with the kids. It's really hard to define whether they aren't or are happier. Is delusional happiness actually happiness? Isn't all happiness some sort of delusion anyway? Hard to say. Also keep in mind that although in general people are less happy with kids, there is also correlation with how well you're doing economically. If you're rich you're more likely to happier with kids.

csdvrx 4y ago
> But when you ask people directly whether or not they're happier with kids, they almost always say they are. It's as if they aren't fully aware about how unhappy they are with the kids. It's as if having kids rewrote the utility function of the person, introducing a bug to pass the test suite ("self satisfaction") to allow for a wider diffusion of the behavior ("I'm so much happier now, trust me it's wonderful!"), yet in a flawed way (i.e. that's not robust to scientific inquiry, as you observed)
- deltaonefour 4y ago
  To clarify the scientific inquiry that measures happiness is simply asking people how happy they were on a scale of 1 to 10. On average people with kids would rate their happiness lower, but when these people are asked whether having kids made them happier they would say yes. So are they happier? Not sure. Could be exactly as you say, but in one sense that bug may actually mean they are truly happier.
  - v-erne 4y ago
    >> but when these people are asked whether having kids made them happier they would say yes This can be quite easily explained by peer pressure - You are expected to treat children as precious little gifts from god, and speaking ill about them makes you look bad in the eyes of your peers.
    - deltaonefour 4y ago
      Anecdotally I've asked close friends for genuine answers and from my perspective they seem convinced they are happier. That being said I have also (fewer) close friends who have told me they are less happy. So you have a point.
      - v-erne 4y ago
        I'm sure that there are people that genuinly create happines from interacting with and having children. Just like there are people that takes pleasure in hurting themselves. The real tragedy is You cannot know which one are You until is too late.
      - agent008t 4y ago
        They are in a situation they now cannot realistically change and that they are 'supposed' to enjoy. There is a lot of pressure to convince themselves they are now happier 'overall', even if actually each of their days is now less happy. The fact is, you will encounter plenty of misery in life regardless. You should not choose based on what makes you happy, but arguably based on what kinds of misery you are more suited to - the misery of having children or the misery of not having children.
getoj 4y ago
Becoming a parent means that you now have a person whose wellbeing is more important to you than your own happiness. I don’t think it’s a contradiction to say (a) that I’d be happier if my daughter had never existed, and (b) that I don’t care about (a) one bit.
- deltaonefour 4y ago
  The real test is if you'd say the same thing given knowledge that you would be unhappy before you had your daughter, and which answer would be more valid? The answer now or the answer you would give before you had your daughter?
  - getoj 4y ago
    - If I were offered the choice to wind back the clock and have her not exist, I wouldn't choose it, even if it would make me happier on the whole. - If I were to travel back in time and convey that information to my past self, it would make him want a child more, not less. - If you were to travel back in time and tell my past self "I talked to your future self, he said he'd probably be happier without a kid," and he believed you, then he might choose the opposite path. But that's because you didn't give him all the information. In other words, given full and accurate knowledge of this future, I would not choose the other future. Once you're a parent you can never not be a parent again, not even in a hypothetical multiple-worlds time-travel scenario.
    - deltaonefour 4y ago
      >Once you're a parent you can never not be a parent again, not even in a hypothetical multiple-worlds time-travel scenario. This is not true at all. It's not a logical answer. Based of what you just said above, I believe you are being honest but I believe your biases are creeping into the answer and therefore cannot trust it. I'm sorry. The reason is because if you erased your memory of being a parent with time travel, you actually CAN not be a parent. This is a very legitimate possibility for anyone. You are letting your emotions interfere with logic. That being said, I am interested in this: >If I were to travel back in time and convey that information to my past self, it would make him want a child more, not less. You would tell your past self that you would be less happy, but you would be able to convince him to have a kid regardless as if he could understand your reasoning through you simply communicating vocally to him. My question to you is why didn't you try communicating this knowledge to me? Why do say vague things like "Once you're a parent you can never not be a parent again" without clearly elucidating the logic behind it? I am very much interested in this logic and would like to hear it despite the fact that I think you're answer has the possibility of being biased. If your logic is convincing then of course you're not biased and I am wrong. But honestly right now because of what you said, it just appears you're biased, but I would very much like to be proven wrong.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
haihaibye 4y ago
There are multiple types of happiness, eg present short term mood vs overall life satisfaction. In your study parentd give a lower 1-10 ranking when asked how they feel in a particular moment, on random timers. When cleaning up shit of someone you love, sure it sucks at that particular moment but your life's full of meaning.
- v-erne 4y ago
  I'm not sure I buy that - Humans can create meaning out of everything - You do not need children for that (there are some that spend years meditating in literal caves and claims that their life is also full of meaning). So given that we can have two persons with life full of meaning, one of which is feeling down most of the time, and both of them somehow selected this life for themselves - its not quite hard to point at not having children as a better way of life. I speak of course from the point of view of me/solicity - others should have as many children as it is required to keep my precious useless stuff mass produced overseas to keep numbing consumptionism continuing until nothingness takes me back.
  - deltaonefour 4y ago
    This is true, but if you think in terms of evolution and natural selection we should be biologically inclined to have certain desires that motivate us to have children above other desires. "Meaning" is more of a creative term, but in actuality much of how we behave is dictated by biology.
    - agent008t 4y ago
      For biological inclination, a sex drive is all that's required to ensure children are produced. Biology doesn't care if you are happy or not afterwards.
      - v-erne 4y ago
        A bit of interesting off-topic : I think its a disservice to general knowledge propagation to use personification when taking about systems. People can care, biology and systems in general cannot, they simply have consequences. I blame Richard Dawkins for this (and his very badly titled Selfish Gene)

mcjoken 4y ago

Our little guy just passed his first birthday and it's been such a fun and stressful time. I think the fact that you're concerned about being a good dad means you'll do well. For me anyway, that feeling of pressure grew but so does the enjoyment and fun! Congrats and enjoy it!