4 ms·

> I think Go is a more interesting game than chess but the scoring is a little hard to teach It's not just the scoring part, the goal of the game is somewhat e

by tasuki 4y ago

> I think Go is a more interesting game than chess but the scoring is a little hard to teach It's not just the scoring part, the goal of the game is somewhat elusive. Surround more than the opponent, how do I even get started? Chess, despite having way more complicated rules, has an immediately obvious goal: capture the king.

hutzlibu 4y ago
You still can teach it even to small kids. It is fun, even if the scoring details are not fully understood.
throw123123123 4y ago
You can start with Atari-Go, thats pretty obvious for a while, and then 9x9 scoring is relatively easy. I think there are other reasons not to teach go than this one.
- tasuki 4y ago
  > I think there are other reasons not to teach go than this one. Mind elaborating? I'm very interested in this topic! I made a rather large survey mostly among the European go players as to why they play go, learning why one shouldn't play/learn/teach go (pick any) would be even more exciting!
  - throw123123123 4y ago
    The worst thing that could happen is that they like the game and end up spending thousands of grueling work for a thankless game. Source: former professional-aspiring player
    - tasuki 4y ago
      I have probably spent thousands of hours playing/studying go. I did it because I enjoyed doing it, and enjoyed getting better. No regrets at all. I never had aspirations to become a professional player, which probably explains the difference between our experiences. I've met many hikaru-no-go-powered "professional-aspiring" players, most of whom didn't even achieve dan level. It seems a recipe for disappointment and bitterness.
      - v-erne 4y ago
        That is profound thruth to live by - the journay should be always more important than the destination. And it always amazes me how one little anime was able to promote go all around the world. I dont think that I know anyone who saw hikaru no go and then not started to learn go (myself included)
        tasuki 4y ago
        I already knew how to play when watching Hikaru no Go, and am surprised there are people who didn't know how to play before and bothered watching nevertheless. Is the story that interesting even if one can't follow the games? [Edit: I guess the answer to my question is contained in your "dont think that I know anyone who saw hikaru no go and then not started to learn go"... though I wonder why people haven't just stopped watching!]
        v-erne 4y ago
        I believe Hikaru is really well done and if one can get through initial barier (its still anime - some people would never watch it event if their life depended on it) it is really engaging story (considering the main topic - a boardgame!)
      - throw123123123 4y ago
        Achieving a high level in this game requires thousands of hours of study. I did reach far in the ladder and could have gotten the actual pro title, albeit honorary like most westerners historically. Its just a time-sink with infinite competition. I dont want to teach it to my daughter.
        tasuki 4y ago
        > could have gotten the actual pro title, albeit honorary Why didn't you? > Its just a time-sink with infinite competition. So why did you play? And why were you aspiring to be a professional?
HumanReadable 4y ago
As someone who is pretty decent at go (6k OGS, for those who know what that means), I teach go in a pretty unorthodox way, which has so far produced much better results than the way I see other teach it. The way I teach both the rules and basic strategy of go is to start with the smallest possible board 1x1 and work our way up. on a 1x1 board, it's impossible to place any stones because it has no liberties. Great now the player knows about liberties. Then we move to a 2x2 board, where it is possible to place a stone and capture the opponent's stone. Great now we know about captures and ko. Then we move to 3x3, where we find ourselves able to create our first live shapes, and get to score the board. Now we know when the game ends and how to score it! Then we move on to 5x5, where we play our first 'real' game, now knowing all the rules.
- russellendicott 4y ago
  I've never once looked at how to play Go but your explanation was super helpful. I appreciate this learning style. I use it with computer stuff too (e.g, in an algo process a list of len 0, then 1, etc)
- tasuki 4y ago
  I'm not very good at go, only European 4dan, but I also have some opinions on teaching :) In my experience, ko is confusing and shouldn't be explained until the players encounter it in their game, play it for a while, and say "wait this is stupid", which is a good time to explain "actually you're not the first to encounter this situation, and there's a rule to handle it!"
  - v-erne 4y ago
    Isn't ko just simple forbinding of board state repetition rule ? (As in You cannot go back to previous state of board and create infinite cycle). Akin to repetition rule in chess. Why would this be hard for beginers ? Unless You try to frame it as a forbinding of retaking the stone that took Your stone - because that can be confusing and it does not explain why this rule exist.
    - 4y ago

by tasuki 4y ago

hutzlibu 4y ago

You still can teach it even to small kids. It is fun, even if the scoring details are not fully understood.

throw123123123 4y ago

You can start with Atari-Go, thats pretty obvious for a while, and then 9x9 scoring is relatively easy. I think there are other reasons not to teach go than this one.

tasuki 4y ago
> I think there are other reasons not to teach go than this one. Mind elaborating? I'm very interested in this topic! I made a rather large survey mostly among the European go players as to why they play go, learning why one shouldn't play/learn/teach go (pick any) would be even more exciting!
- throw123123123 4y ago
  The worst thing that could happen is that they like the game and end up spending thousands of grueling work for a thankless game. Source: former professional-aspiring player
  - tasuki 4y ago
    I have probably spent thousands of hours playing/studying go. I did it because I enjoyed doing it, and enjoyed getting better. No regrets at all. I never had aspirations to become a professional player, which probably explains the difference between our experiences. I've met many hikaru-no-go-powered "professional-aspiring" players, most of whom didn't even achieve dan level. It seems a recipe for disappointment and bitterness.
    - v-erne 4y ago
      That is profound thruth to live by - the journay should be always more important than the destination. And it always amazes me how one little anime was able to promote go all around the world. I dont think that I know anyone who saw hikaru no go and then not started to learn go (myself included)
      - tasuki 4y ago
        I already knew how to play when watching Hikaru no Go, and am surprised there are people who didn't know how to play before and bothered watching nevertheless. Is the story that interesting even if one can't follow the games? [Edit: I guess the answer to my question is contained in your "dont think that I know anyone who saw hikaru no go and then not started to learn go"... though I wonder why people haven't just stopped watching!]
        v-erne 4y ago
        I believe Hikaru is really well done and if one can get through initial barier (its still anime - some people would never watch it event if their life depended on it) it is really engaging story (considering the main topic - a boardgame!)
    - throw123123123 4y ago
      Achieving a high level in this game requires thousands of hours of study. I did reach far in the ladder and could have gotten the actual pro title, albeit honorary like most westerners historically. Its just a time-sink with infinite competition. I dont want to teach it to my daughter.
      - tasuki 4y ago
        > could have gotten the actual pro title, albeit honorary Why didn't you? > Its just a time-sink with infinite competition. So why did you play? And why were you aspiring to be a professional?

HumanReadable 4y ago

As someone who is pretty decent at go (6k OGS, for those who know what that means), I teach go in a pretty unorthodox way, which has so far produced much better results than the way I see other teach it. The way I teach both the rules and basic strategy of go is to start with the smallest possible board 1x1 and work our way up. on a 1x1 board, it's impossible to place any stones because it has no liberties. Great now the player knows about liberties. Then we move to a 2x2 board, where it is possible to place a stone and capture the opponent's stone. Great now we know about captures and ko. Then we move to 3x3, where we find ourselves able to create our first live shapes, and get to score the board. Now we know when the game ends and how to score it! Then we move on to 5x5, where we play our first 'real' game, now knowing all the rules.

russellendicott 4y ago
I've never once looked at how to play Go but your explanation was super helpful. I appreciate this learning style. I use it with computer stuff too (e.g, in an algo process a list of len 0, then 1, etc)
tasuki 4y ago
I'm not very good at go, only European 4dan, but I also have some opinions on teaching :) In my experience, ko is confusing and shouldn't be explained until the players encounter it in their game, play it for a while, and say "wait this is stupid", which is a good time to explain "actually you're not the first to encounter this situation, and there's a rule to handle it!"
- v-erne 4y ago
  Isn't ko just simple forbinding of board state repetition rule ? (As in You cannot go back to previous state of board and create infinite cycle). Akin to repetition rule in chess. Why would this be hard for beginers ? Unless You try to frame it as a forbinding of retaking the stone that took Your stone - because that can be confusing and it does not explain why this rule exist.
  - 4y ago