6 ms·

> Unless you want to introduce gambling to your children, this fact alone disqualifies poker. Why wouldn't I? Gambling teaches math, probability, detecting de

> Unless you want to introduce gambling to your children, this fact alone disqualifies poker. Why wouldn't I? Gambling teaches math, probability, detecting deception, the sunk cost fallacy, sticking to a budget, dealing with disappointment, and if you win, generosity of sharing your win. Maybe I'm biased because growing up Jewish we learn gambling at a very young age (playing dreidel) but we're also using blackjack and poker with our kids to teach them all the things I said above.

golemiprague 4y ago
winnipeg 4y ago
We (the kids in our neighborhood) learned gambling at a young age. For some, this was associated with compulsive behaviors, criminal misconduct via mafia-associated illicit gambling rackets, and further organized criminal activities. Gambling is a vice. Where there is a vice, other vices exist. I agree with your comment primarily but suspect that the influence on life outcome of learning gambling at a young age is environmentally and culturally dependent.
- Rufhfhs3747rhe7 4y ago
  Impulsive gambling is a vice. Games with sufficient game theoretic aspects can also be excellent intellectual playgrounds for strategic planning in uncertain situations.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
pclmulqdq 4y ago
There is a big benefit to learning about how to gamble well as a kid, but that is offset (in my opinion) by learning that it is good to gamble. It needs to be drilled into a good gambler's head that they should take good bets as long as their bankroll supports it but avoid bad bets. Most people who learn to play poker don't learn that. Incidentally, I believe that it is also good to teach teens about fine wines and spirits (to expand their palates) and how to drink in moderation and avoid hangovers (to help them in social situations). Many people who start drinking early also don't learn those lessons. Kids also pick up a lot from context, so if you teach your child to gamble using a dreidel on a holiday, it is a very different thing than teaching them to gamble with online poker (for example). It's very easy to learn the wrong lessons from games like poker and blackjack.
- carlmr 4y ago
  >and how to drink in moderation and avoid hangovers (to help them in social situations). Many people who start drinking early also don't learn those lessons. Looking at drinking age 21 in the US vs drinking age 16 in Germany, I would say German college students don't put so much effort in getting wasted in my experience. Starting earlier gives some time, where the kids are still somewhat under the control of their parents, to adapt to alcohol. At 21 I feel like a lot of Americans already have an unhealthy obsession with getting wasted, because they've waited so long to get there. I do understand that in the US you get your driver's license at 16, and having these events coincide would be horrible, but it's not entirely clear cut to me whether this trade-off is good.
  - curuinor 4y ago
    whereas east asia mostly has a drinking age intermediate between the two and, in turn, get absolutely turbo-sozzled, mega-crunked even more than americans. only comparable to east europeans, really. more the state of society than the number
    - carlmr 4y ago
      East Asia is a bit of an exception though, since 36%[1] of the population gets mega-crunked on one beer. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_flush_reaction#frequency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_flush_reaction#frequen...
- oarabbus_ 4y ago
  >It needs to be drilled into a good gambler's head that they should take good bets as long as their bankroll supports it but avoid bad bets. Most people who learn to play poker don't learn that. Absolutely true, and to add to that, even taking good bets requires disciplined bankroll management. Too many gamblers seem to think a bet that won means it was good; and that it's an oxymoron to take a good bet which loses. Tangentially related, it's important to learn to seek out mispriced odds or lines in sports bets. For example, the recent Mavericks Suns game 7 had the Suns favored by ~6.5 points depending on the oddsmaker, which translates to ~94% implied probability of winning. I saw this as mispriced and so I bet on the Mavericks, expecting to lose - I thought the Suns would win, but nowhere near a 94% probability of winning (I didn't pick a number, but I'd have estimated something like 60% probability to win); therefore I felt it was a "good" bet to take. If the suns won and I lost money (which was my expectation), it was still a good bet to take. As an additional point of interest, after the game, I googled to find out the home team in NBA game 7s had won the game 78% of the time (after last week, the number is now 77%).
scottLobster 4y ago
Depends on the gambling. Casual games with friends/family is one thing, but definitely teach them that Casinos are not the same thing and exist to part fools (or rich people already set for life) from their money, no matter how badass some movies make them out to be. I'd rather they learn risk taking through strategy games with incomplete information (like XCOM 2, Starcraft, Among Us, etc). That gives them a range of strategies to experiment with and will teach the perils of both risking too much and being too conservative. Most traditional gambling assumes a position of "luck is part of the fun" as opposed to treating it as a risk to be managed. Because if you treated it as a risk to be managed, and the requisite luck level is set so high, why play the game in the first place?
- User23 4y ago
  > Casinos are not the same thing and exist to part fools (or rich people already set for life) from their money, no matter how badass some movies make them out to be. Viewing a casino as a place to make money is certainly an error. However with smart play and a bankroll of $20,000 or more you can get a VIP experience at an excellent average price in Las Vegas. A room, food, and beverage comp from your host can easily have a nominal daily value in the low four digits if you have a nice room and eat and drink at the nice places owned by the property you play at. You will be expected to spend a minimum of four hours a day at the tables though, so it’s not really worth it unless you enjoy the games. Personally I find blackjack and craps entertaining, albeit for very different reasons. Incidentally those games are very close to even odds. You don’t have to beat the house edge, you just have to beat the house edge less their marketing budget. The casino allocates marketing dollars, that is comps, based on your theoretical loss. Last I knew for blackjack the theo assumed a 2% house edge and marketing will refund about 30% of that in comps. That’s regardless of how well or poorly you do. Since even competent basic strategy brings the house edge down to a 0.5% you’re already ahead there.
  - jedberg 4y ago
    > However with smart play and a bankroll of $20,000 or more you can get a VIP experience at an excellent average price in Las Vegas. Curious if you could expand on “smart play”? Which strategies do you consider? Just basic BJ strategy and come bets with odds? Or something else? How much do you bet per hand to get RFB comps?
User23 4y ago
Don’t forget risk management.
99_00 4y ago
At what age did you learn to gamble? Gambling is highly emotional and triggering. How were the inevitable outbursts handled?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

golemiprague 4y ago

winnipeg 4y ago

We (the kids in our neighborhood) learned gambling at a young age. For some, this was associated with compulsive behaviors, criminal misconduct via mafia-associated illicit gambling rackets, and further organized criminal activities. Gambling is a vice. Where there is a vice, other vices exist. I agree with your comment primarily but suspect that the influence on life outcome of learning gambling at a young age is environmentally and culturally dependent.

Rufhfhs3747rhe7 4y ago
Impulsive gambling is a vice. Games with sufficient game theoretic aspects can also be excellent intellectual playgrounds for strategic planning in uncertain situations.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

pclmulqdq 4y ago

There is a big benefit to learning about how to gamble well as a kid, but that is offset (in my opinion) by learning that it is good to gamble. It needs to be drilled into a good gambler's head that they should take good bets as long as their bankroll supports it but avoid bad bets. Most people who learn to play poker don't learn that. Incidentally, I believe that it is also good to teach teens about fine wines and spirits (to expand their palates) and how to drink in moderation and avoid hangovers (to help them in social situations). Many people who start drinking early also don't learn those lessons. Kids also pick up a lot from context, so if you teach your child to gamble using a dreidel on a holiday, it is a very different thing than teaching them to gamble with online poker (for example). It's very easy to learn the wrong lessons from games like poker and blackjack.

carlmr 4y ago
>and how to drink in moderation and avoid hangovers (to help them in social situations). Many people who start drinking early also don't learn those lessons. Looking at drinking age 21 in the US vs drinking age 16 in Germany, I would say German college students don't put so much effort in getting wasted in my experience. Starting earlier gives some time, where the kids are still somewhat under the control of their parents, to adapt to alcohol. At 21 I feel like a lot of Americans already have an unhealthy obsession with getting wasted, because they've waited so long to get there. I do understand that in the US you get your driver's license at 16, and having these events coincide would be horrible, but it's not entirely clear cut to me whether this trade-off is good.
- curuinor 4y ago
  whereas east asia mostly has a drinking age intermediate between the two and, in turn, get absolutely turbo-sozzled, mega-crunked even more than americans. only comparable to east europeans, really. more the state of society than the number
  - carlmr 4y ago
    East Asia is a bit of an exception though, since 36%[1] of the population gets mega-crunked on one beer. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_flush_reaction#frequency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_flush_reaction#frequen...
oarabbus_ 4y ago
>It needs to be drilled into a good gambler's head that they should take good bets as long as their bankroll supports it but avoid bad bets. Most people who learn to play poker don't learn that. Absolutely true, and to add to that, even taking good bets requires disciplined bankroll management. Too many gamblers seem to think a bet that won means it was good; and that it's an oxymoron to take a good bet which loses. Tangentially related, it's important to learn to seek out mispriced odds or lines in sports bets. For example, the recent Mavericks Suns game 7 had the Suns favored by ~6.5 points depending on the oddsmaker, which translates to ~94% implied probability of winning. I saw this as mispriced and so I bet on the Mavericks, expecting to lose - I thought the Suns would win, but nowhere near a 94% probability of winning (I didn't pick a number, but I'd have estimated something like 60% probability to win); therefore I felt it was a "good" bet to take. If the suns won and I lost money (which was my expectation), it was still a good bet to take. As an additional point of interest, after the game, I googled to find out the home team in NBA game 7s had won the game 78% of the time (after last week, the number is now 77%).

scottLobster 4y ago

Depends on the gambling. Casual games with friends/family is one thing, but definitely teach them that Casinos are not the same thing and exist to part fools (or rich people already set for life) from their money, no matter how badass some movies make them out to be. I'd rather they learn risk taking through strategy games with incomplete information (like XCOM 2, Starcraft, Among Us, etc). That gives them a range of strategies to experiment with and will teach the perils of both risking too much and being too conservative. Most traditional gambling assumes a position of "luck is part of the fun" as opposed to treating it as a risk to be managed. Because if you treated it as a risk to be managed, and the requisite luck level is set so high, why play the game in the first place?

User23 4y ago
> Casinos are not the same thing and exist to part fools (or rich people already set for life) from their money, no matter how badass some movies make them out to be. Viewing a casino as a place to make money is certainly an error. However with smart play and a bankroll of $20,000 or more you can get a VIP experience at an excellent average price in Las Vegas. A room, food, and beverage comp from your host can easily have a nominal daily value in the low four digits if you have a nice room and eat and drink at the nice places owned by the property you play at. You will be expected to spend a minimum of four hours a day at the tables though, so it’s not really worth it unless you enjoy the games. Personally I find blackjack and craps entertaining, albeit for very different reasons. Incidentally those games are very close to even odds. You don’t have to beat the house edge, you just have to beat the house edge less their marketing budget. The casino allocates marketing dollars, that is comps, based on your theoretical loss. Last I knew for blackjack the theo assumed a 2% house edge and marketing will refund about 30% of that in comps. That’s regardless of how well or poorly you do. Since even competent basic strategy brings the house edge down to a 0.5% you’re already ahead there.
- jedberg 4y ago
  > However with smart play and a bankroll of $20,000 or more you can get a VIP experience at an excellent average price in Las Vegas. Curious if you could expand on “smart play”? Which strategies do you consider? Just basic BJ strategy and come bets with odds? Or something else? How much do you bet per hand to get RFB comps?

User23 4y ago

Don’t forget risk management.

99_00 4y ago

At what age did you learn to gamble? Gambling is highly emotional and triggering. How were the inevitable outbursts handled?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]