4 ms·

I know you don't realize this, and you think you're a legitimately good person. But you're basically saying "We know you better than you know yourself, and we'

I know you don't realize this, and you think you're a legitimately good person. But you're basically saying "We know you better than you know yourself, and we're going to manipulate you into pissing away as much time and energy on our platform as possible because we can"

reaperducer 4y ago
I hate Facebook as much as the next guy, but this part is correct: The things people say they don’t want to do and what they actually don’t do are often surprisingly different When television ratings measurement started moving from people writing down their viewing habits in a diary to automated system measuring what they were actually watching, suddenly "PBS" ratings tanked, and have stayed down in automated measurements. The same thing happened in radio. People would write down that they listen to whatever station was trendy, or cool, or advertised the most. But when Portable People Meters became a thing, we found out that people listen to a little bit from all different kinds of radio stations. People are sometimes untruthful. Even when they're assured of anonymity.
- Zak 4y ago
  While that's true, there's another layer to it: impulse control. When I consciously think about what I'd like to watch on Youtube, it doesn't include some of the things I'd click on if they were put in front of my face. The same is true of food I might take from a buffet versus what I'd order for a catered meal. I'd like to have an algorithmic feed that gives me the kinds of things I say I want rather than basing it on my actual behavior. I'd spend less time on Youtube and watch things my conscious mind says are more valuable to me. Of course, that's less profitable.
kelseyfrog 4y ago
There is a third interpretation I'd like to posit starting from the oft-quoted phrase "Know thyself." One, it implies that knowing thyself isn't a guaranteed ability - it takes effort for example. Furthermore, we can without difficulty agree that knowing thyself has degrees, dimension, and quality. So what then, if someone does not know thyself in some way? They leave open the possibility to have others define them, take advantage of them, and influence one's agency. This doesn't exclude the possibly of someone knowing something about you better than you know, only to say that maligned agents can capitalize on one's lack of self-knowing. We can then extend the original quote in this specific content to "Know yourself so that you alone can define your agency." This extension allows for nuance in epistemological introspection and accounts for inter-subjective manipulation.
- Firmwarrior 4y ago
  I agree with you here, but bringing it back to the context at hand: Facebook knows what will keep people hooked in a way that helps Facebook, and sneakily optimizes for that. They don't care if the product sucks or if it radicalizes people with aggressive, difficult-to-debunk BS memes and grinds them against each other. Yeah, OK, a lot of people don't know themselves well enough to turn their phone notifications off and delete their Twitter accounts. That's the part I don't like, and it's all cloaked behind "We're increasing engagement with a data-driven approach!"
paulcole 4y ago
Yes, I know that is what I’m saying. And no, I don’t think of myself as a legitimately good person. Fairly stupid. Pretty selfish. Decent cook, so that’s something.

reaperducer 4y ago

I hate Facebook as much as the next guy, but this part is correct: The things people say they don’t want to do and what they actually don’t do are often surprisingly different When television ratings measurement started moving from people writing down their viewing habits in a diary to automated system measuring what they were actually watching, suddenly "PBS" ratings tanked, and have stayed down in automated measurements. The same thing happened in radio. People would write down that they listen to whatever station was trendy, or cool, or advertised the most. But when Portable People Meters became a thing, we found out that people listen to a little bit from all different kinds of radio stations. People are sometimes untruthful. Even when they're assured of anonymity.

Zak 4y ago
While that's true, there's another layer to it: impulse control. When I consciously think about what I'd like to watch on Youtube, it doesn't include some of the things I'd click on if they were put in front of my face. The same is true of food I might take from a buffet versus what I'd order for a catered meal. I'd like to have an algorithmic feed that gives me the kinds of things I say I want rather than basing it on my actual behavior. I'd spend less time on Youtube and watch things my conscious mind says are more valuable to me. Of course, that's less profitable.

kelseyfrog 4y ago

There is a third interpretation I'd like to posit starting from the oft-quoted phrase "Know thyself." One, it implies that knowing thyself isn't a guaranteed ability - it takes effort for example. Furthermore, we can without difficulty agree that knowing thyself has degrees, dimension, and quality. So what then, if someone does not know thyself in some way? They leave open the possibility to have others define them, take advantage of them, and influence one's agency. This doesn't exclude the possibly of someone knowing something about you better than you know, only to say that maligned agents can capitalize on one's lack of self-knowing. We can then extend the original quote in this specific content to "Know yourself so that you alone can define your agency." This extension allows for nuance in epistemological introspection and accounts for inter-subjective manipulation.

Firmwarrior 4y ago
I agree with you here, but bringing it back to the context at hand: Facebook knows what will keep people hooked in a way that helps Facebook, and sneakily optimizes for that. They don't care if the product sucks or if it radicalizes people with aggressive, difficult-to-debunk BS memes and grinds them against each other. Yeah, OK, a lot of people don't know themselves well enough to turn their phone notifications off and delete their Twitter accounts. That's the part I don't like, and it's all cloaked behind "We're increasing engagement with a data-driven approach!"

paulcole 4y ago

Yes, I know that is what I’m saying. And no, I don’t think of myself as a legitimately good person. Fairly stupid. Pretty selfish. Decent cook, so that’s something.