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Kinopio
- WalterGR 4y agoAre these graph UI elements reusable libraries, or do sites tend to roll their own?
- pketh 4y agoIn this case, everything is hand made (built in Vue and not much else) https://pketh.org/how-i-build.html https://pketh.org/how-i-build.html
- Intragalactic 4y agoWoah. I love Kinopio! I've used a lot of different tools that are similar but something about the artstyle and the way it works is just so fun. Huge thumbs up. Is there a way to select multiple cards at once?
- pketh 4y agoyup, this might blow your mind - Just drag and hold to paint over them https://help.kinopio.club/posts/selecting-and-bulk-actions/ https://help.kinopio.club/posts/selecting-and-bulk-actions/
- spicyusername 4y agoInfinite canvas apps are such a great way to brainstorm. Kinopio has a little more... personality, but I use an infinite canvas app called Concepts when brainstorming for work or play. https://concepts.app/ https://concepts.app/
- kaliszad 4y agoWhat do you love about Concepts? Do you pay for a subscription (and how much is it - I must be blind or I just can't find it on the website)?
- mahmutc 4y agoI've installed android application and it showed around $2-3 per month for subscription. But I'm pretty sure it should be different in another country or for web.
- sureglymop 4y agoI use concepts on an ipad pro for drawing and i bought the subscription for a few dollars. I prefer it over other drawing apps for ipad because it's vector based.
- spicyusername 4y agoIt has a slick interface and has a "rightsized" feature-set, not too many, not too few. Just enough to be productive without overwhelming you with options.
- SemanticStrengh 4y agoThe graphical style is very cute :) I wish the internet was more like this (geocities like) BTW more websites should propose embedded music... edit DAMN THIS WEBSITE IT GETTING IT RIGHT!! we live in an absurd world where we have so many websites where people create or categorize content, and yet we can't live what other people live.. Most social networks are now tragically private by default (youtube playlists, etc) and we can't observe the feed of other users, not even super-users, only our shitty algo biased one. Yet here I can easily browse user contents and this is just much more useful than anything I could have came up myself, we users of the interweb are so deprived of authentic user content, I discovered in a few minutes of user's content browsing unique concepts, such as a mapping of the musical taste of someone, and so many other relatable, under-represented and heartwarming content! The world might not realize it, but this is what everyone needs. [0] https://kinopio.club/my-music-taste-4Z-ImVfoQ46poNtyLJSrQ https://kinopio.club/my-music-taste-4Z-ImVfoQ46poNtyLJSrQ
- pketh 4y agoThanks! I've been working hard on it. I got real tired of hearing how the web is lost, or how you can't have build a real business on the web, unless you sell data and/or have VC, and wanting to build the web app we deserve :) That's a really cool space btw, found some gems in there
- SemanticStrengh 4y agoThank you, that give me hope, this is very meaningful work :) very minor critic: the scrolling performance is not perfect on some boards (note that my 4K screen doewsn't help..) BTW your app just made me discover the movie "everything everywhere all at once" (yeah I must be living under a rock..) and I'm very hyped given the critics!
- pketh 4y agoare you seeing scroll performance on boards with lots of cards/connections? Or on all boards? I develop Kinopio on a 6k screen so I'd also agree that there's future optimizations I need to do
- rambambram 4y agoNice examples! I miss a tooltip with text though, when I hover an icon.
- pketh 4y agoMakes sense. At least in these early days I didn't want to rely on that as a crutch because Kinopio is designed to also work on mobile/touch devices which don't have hover
- rambambram 4y agoI can understand. Still very nice project, and the UI is clear enough!
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- leephillips 4y agoCool! I got a little lost because the usual browser navigations, forward and back, don’t work (you “broke the back button”).
- pketh 4y agoCan you let me know more so I can repro? When you navigate from one kinopio page (called a space) to another, the back and forward buttons are supposed to do the right thing
- leephillips 4y agoWhen I first visited, I clicked on an arrow that was on a card with the blue creature. I was taken to a kind of shop, that had a picture of plants at the bottom. From there there is no back navigation. This happened twice. But now when I visit the link in your submission, I’m taken directly to the shop, so I can’t reproduce the problem.
- matttb 4y agoI had this exact same experience
- pketh 4y agothanks I'll investigate that
- pketh 4y agoEDIT: finding it hard to replicate, what browser/OS were you using?
- matttb 4y agoFirefox 100.0.2 on Windows 10. Clicking the arrow directs me to https://kinopio.club/u9XxpuIzz2_LvQUAayl65 https://kinopio.club/u9XxpuIzz2_LvQUAayl65 but going back (or refreshing) doesn't change the page content
- joshmarinacci 4y agoI love these sorts of apps, but why are they always so slow? Even One Notes canvas mode was super slow.
- SemanticStrengh 4y agoyes scrolling is not as smooth as it should
- pketh 4y agobrowsers natively don't handle huge amounts of nodes as well as native or canvas implementations (which have other downsides). There's def more optimization I can do here though
- kaliszad 4y agoYep, we unfortunately have the same problem at OrgPad. Canvas doesn't help that much, probably going to skip extensive canvas rewrites and will use WebGL instead.
- SamBam 4y agoI created one note, deleted it, scrolled to the bottom, and tried to create another. From then on, everything was broken. Taps didn't create cards, scrolling became janky, sometimes I'd see the pink circle of a tap from something I did 10 seconds previous, and in the wrong place. The was repeatable when I exited the site and came back in. Android Pixel 6 Firefox 100.2.0
- pketh 4y agoHey SamBam, Ya Android is the only platform that currently has this bug (and a couple others). It's hard to diagnose, but I'm working on it. Sorry about that!
- SemanticStrengh 4y agoIt'd be nice to have a Ionic app in the future!
- bowsamic 4y agoIt looks good but I'm probably not going to pay $8 a month to use it. Seeing that price puts me off of it immediately.
- pketh 4y agoI'm still working on the pricing, any suggestions?
- SemanticStrengh 4y agoit'd be nice to offer a lifetime license in the future
- pketh 4y agoI was actually considering that, the only product I know that does a lifetime plan is Roam though. Do you know of any others?
- SemanticStrengh 4y agoIntellij has (had?) a lifetime license. My POV is that having to pay monthly forever is a psychological burden. Your pricing seems reasonable to me but psychologicaly, some users could pay for a lifetime license and not for monthly one. Also you could propose a discount for the first year (a common practice)
- pketh 4y ago> Also you could propose a discount for the first year Sounds like a good idea, I haven't really seen this myself though, could you point me to some examples?
- somebodythere 4y agoSpecifically, for a note-taking app, a subscription model is discouraging. I don't want access to the history of my thoughts tied to a recurring payment. On the other hand, if I stopped paying for IntelliJ, I can open my code with any variety of free or paid IDEs (ignoring the fact that I can use a 12-month old version of IntelliJ indefinitely).
- thomaspaillot 4y ago[dead]
- thomaspaillot 4y ago[dead]
- xhfloz 4y agoOne of my favorite people and websites out there :)
- rnmp 4y agoReally glad to see apps that help you explore your thoughts without feeling like productivity. This is a trend that will continue growing. Shameless plug on an app I’m working on: Bleep (https://www.bleep.is https://www.bleep.is) Similar concept though different execution - customization + organization in a way that doesn’t feel like a productivity tool which is what I think Kinopio is aiming towards. Definitely an inspiration for me!
- pketh 4y agoya somewhere along the way 'productivity' became 'enterprise', a depressing association to tools that are ideally supposed to help you build a better and funner life
- culi 4y agobleep.is looks like a less brutalist are.na
- rnmp 4y agoDefinitely the intention. I really like are.na’s concept but was hoping to have something more multi-purpose and accessible visually.
- ptato 4y agoThe design is really cool, but the tool is useless (to me) if I can't use it offline and store the data on my own hardware. For some reason everyone in this space is building cloud tools!
- SemanticStrengh 4y agoweb apps can be totally offline via localstorage and some PWA APIs, it's just not widespreadely in use unfortunately
- ptato 4y agolocalStorage is nice but what I really love are files, in a folder, on my computer :D
- capableweb 4y agolocalStorage is in a file, on your computer ;) For Firefox/Linux, it's in webappsstore.sqlite (guessing the same file exists for Windows/macOS too but can't verify, and Chrome probably have something similar). Less fun: many "offline-capable" web apps that leverages PWA APIs/localStorage usually often allow you to download/upload a JSON representation of your data. I think I remember a graph drawing tool that allow you to do just that, but can't find a link to it right now.
- ptato 4y agoIt's a hidden, opaque file. As far as I can tell, my browser doesn't tell me what its path is on my file system. That path and the file format could change with a browser update. Again, localStorage is nice, but this whole setup isn't comparable to a .pdf or whatever that I can have on my desktop.
- SemanticStrengh 4y agocapableweb isn't telling you how capable the web has become, see https://googlechromelabs.github.io/text-editor/ https://googlechromelabs.github.io/text-editor/ note: probably works best in chromium browsers
- pketh 4y agoOh Hi, I'm the solo creator of Kinopio. Before this, I was the designer and co-creator of Glitch. I'll go through and answer things, feel free to AMA. If you're curious about me or about the process of designing/creating, these blog posts might be helpful: - https://pketh.org/how-kinopio-is-made.html https://pketh.org/how-kinopio-is-made.html - https://pketh.org/designing-for-thinking.html https://pketh.org/designing-for-thinking.html - https://pketh.org/the-first-four-years-of-glitch.html https://pketh.org/the-first-four-years-of-glitch.html
- zkid18 4y agoHey! Congrats on the launch. Love the emerging thought and products around spatial web apps. Building the company in adjacent space – www.spatial.chat let's chat one day. feel free to dm in twi: @kidrulit
- stavros 4y agoIs the name Greek?
- pketh 4y agoIn Japanese it means mushroom, not sure what else (the nintendo character toad is called kinopio-kun in japan). But really I just randomly stumbled on it years ago and it sounded unique and interesting to me
- rjh29 4y agoIn Japanese mushroom is kinoko. kinopio is the name for Toad, probably comes from kinoko but doesn't mean anything by itself :)
- togaen 4y agoIt’s like a 90’s fever dream.
- pketh 4y agohopefully someplace in that there's the dream of a better future
- wildrhythms 4y agoYes and it rules
- hkon 4y agoLooks cool. Would have been great back when I was creative.
- pketh 4y agoMaybe you can find your creativity again? I'm sure it never truly left
- hkon 4y agoYes you are probably right. But, and this might sound strange, why would I go looking?
- SemanticStrengh 4y agoI feel the same :( but creativity is a muscle !
- pketh 4y agofor sure, it's definitely something that gets better with exercise
- drakonka 4y agoThis is so cool. I love the aesthetic and UX. The only thing is, I really wish I could self-host this. This seems like just the kind of thing I'd use for personal journaling brainstorms, and I'd really love to be able to just have that kind of data locally or self-hosted in my own location of choice.
- pketh 4y agoI get that, it's hard to do self-hosting with a commercial product, but something I'll look into in the future for sure
- drakonka 4y agoYeah, I understand. I'd be happy to pay a higher one-time fee for the software, or still do it on a monthly charge basis (I understand there'd be enforcement difficulties with that though).
- programmertote 4y agoWhen I saw "Kinopio", I thought it's about Toad character (my favorite) in Super Mario universe. :) But I'm still pleasantly surprised to see a site that looks very unique. I wonder if the word "Kinopio" means something other than Toad in Japanese (maybe someone here who knows Japanese can answer?)
- YeezyMode 4y agoStraight from Wikipedia: Kinopio, which is a mixture of the word for mushroom (“kinoko”) and the Japanese version of Pinocchio (“pinokio”). Those blend to be something along the lines of “A Real Mushroom Boy.”
- pketh 4y ago> “A Real Mushroom Boy.” Sometimes that's how I feel about myself
- samlu 4y agoNothing beats Miro. Very sweet version though
- kaliszad 4y agoWhy do you feel that way? I think, Miro has hundreds of features and integrations but the basic usage seems to be rather clunky.
- nammi 4y agoI used this and it's really cool, but like others the fact I didn't have my files on disk made it way less useful
- IceHegel 4y ago2D canvas is by far the most natural way to brainstorm. I've been using the Vienna beta (https://vienna.earth https://vienna.earth) but am interested to see how this compares. So far I like Vienna for visual stuff - but going to try this for mind mapping.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- alakep 4y agoReally wanna try Vienna. Been on their waitlist
- jack19 4y agoHonestly mind mapping is a waste of time, just trying to look smart
- pketh 4y agokinopio isn't traditional mind mapping, think of it as just writing stuff down wherever until it makes sense. Hopefully we can agree that clear writing comes from clear thinking.
- alakep 4y agoWould brainstorm with pen and paper only. Publishing thoughts and brainstorms to friends is the only thing I would use a tool online for
- IceHegel 4y agoThere are some cases where it needs to be digital. Paper is great for smaller projects, but it doesn't scale.
- pambea 4y agoNever been a huge fan of mind mapping. You have to kind of force the information into a certain structure, whereas with a paper/canvas, you can just put everything down without connecting stuff with lines.
- 2sk21 4y agoThis is a very promising tool - I can see many uses for it. My one fear nowadays is that this data could be valuable to the likes of Google etc for training ML models. Hope you can keep this away from the crawlers.
- pketh 4y agoYou can set your spaces to 'private', and if you do the data is not visible to crawlers and non-invited humans alike https://help.kinopio.club/posts/privacy-options/ https://help.kinopio.club/posts/privacy-options/
- nwatson 4y agoLooks very compelling, I'm curious as to whether it covers all the bases. At my day job the sales-side folks Zoom with customers all day to discuss financial API integrations. Every potential customer is different. They draw out everything in Whimsical, https://whimsical.com/ https://whimsical.com/, which has a very bare-bones aesthetic. It seems to work, they got to US$10M ARR in short order.
- pketh 4y agoI believe that Kinopio does most or all of what whimsical can do, but with a very different (less rigid and less structured) approach. Happy to answer any specific Qs as they come up
- contingencies 4y agoCongrats on the launch but personally can't see myself using a tool like this. What problem does it solve? Mind maps have been around for years and remain niche for a reason reminiscent of Lamport's take on UML: fuzzy pictures of boxes and arrows. There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept. - Ansel Adams IMHO the best value tools in our company are clipboards with blank pages and three colors of pens on every desk, and an auto sheet-feed scanner to get the results in to git without fiddly photography. I love graphviz/mscgen as much as the next unixer, but for ideation paper wins hands down. Don't use the computer to do things that can be done efficiently by hand. - Richard Hill, Hewlett-Packard
- pketh 4y agoKinopio isn't technically a mind mapping tool, it's a spatial thinking tool. The big distinction is you are not constrained to a single tree. You can write whatever you want wherever you want it and only connect what you want to connect – just like with paper and pens.
- contingencies 4y agoFair enough. I'm not really clear on what 'spatial thinking' is. We spend a lot of time doing mechanical design so have spatial problems aplenty, but they tend to be solved by segment-specific tooling with strong visualization CAD/CAM IDEs already.
- hammerbrostime 4y agoWhat is your process for designing a vector-laden ui like this? Are you coding and drawing? How did you get to this?
- pketh 4y agoIn this case I started with some mockups a looong time ago, and I've been building primarily in code ever since. Maybe helpful: - https://pketh.org/designing-for-thinking.html https://pketh.org/designing-for-thinking.html - https://pketh.org/how-i-build.html https://pketh.org/how-i-build.html - https://pketh.org/glitch-look-and-feels.html https://pketh.org/glitch-look-and-feels.html
- nunez 4y agothis is like web 1.0 Miro and I love every second of it
- deluxeroyale 4y agoAmazing work @pketh, been following your blog and work for a while. Really inspiring, not a lot of work out there that reaches this level of quality in all aspects. Are you doing all the work on this or do you have a team with you?
- deluxeroyale 4y agoYeah I should have phrased that question better since you wrote solo creator. Do you use any external people to get anything done?
- pketh 4y agoI'd like to, but so far I've only dipped into contracting to help me make the halloween frame
- zby 4y agoAnyone has some kinopio notes that he would like to share?
- pketh 4y agothere's some great ones in Explore, like https://kinopio.club/what-s-inspiring-you-today-may-9-15-2022--RURfFQ_56ZYvfbQ510yIE https://kinopio.club/what-s-inspiring-you-today-may-9-15-202... Here's one of mine that I use for storing quotes I like https://kinopio.club/quotebook-gMHTM2uFIrckS4lsszQpU https://kinopio.club/quotebook-gMHTM2uFIrckS4lsszQpU
- culi 4y agoSo far from this thread, in terms of "spatial knowledge gardening" tools I have to try out: - https://stemic.app/ https://stemic.app/ - https://roamresearch.com/ https://roamresearch.com/ - https://kinopio.club/ https://kinopio.club/ - https://mmm.page/ https://mmm.page/ - http://concepts.app/ http://concepts.app/ - https://vienna.earth/ https://vienna.earth/