4 ms·

How did you guys feel about all the Linux patent sabre rattling that Microsoft was doing at the time or shortly thereafter?

jchw 4y ago
I think when it comes to big companies of any sort, not just big tech, a lot of unloved initiatives are also not well-liked from within, but even fairly critical people tolerate it as long as they’re not in close proximity to it. I can only imagine others here can relate to the pressures of trying to balance pressure to prioritize short to mid-term business success vs investing in long-term gains and user trust. Maybe Google is a bit of a weirder case, but I was there when Dragonfly was uncovered and though some people quit, most people just complained. (To be sure, I definitely understand that some company culture would be more aggressive against internal dialogue like this. I’m somewhat neutral on it as it definitely had its ups and downs.)
- fartcannon 4y ago
  I used to work in a field that clashed with my personal ethics. Took me a decade to figure out it. More than enough time to be culpable. Life is interesting.
graiz 4y ago
Keep in mind that at the time Microsoft was being sued for being anti-competitive behaviour by Netscape and there were a lot of attention on the company for being a bad actor. Most of Microsofts's patents were defensive (they rarely used them offensively to my knowledge). There was a group of execs that were nervous about Linux but the lack of UI/UX/Usability strength put most of the focus on server capabilities. To this day many people want Linux to be a broader desktop OS but the only strong and focused effort on this are ironically ChromeOS and Android.
- fartcannon 4y ago
  Interesting, from the outside it definitely appeared like there was a lot of effort into destabilizing footholds Linux and FOSS were making. There was the whole 'true cost of ownership' advertisement FUD, attempts to paint the desktop experience as poor (as you just did) when it was and continues to be a superior experience ever since KDE 3.5 (imo, of course), the sabre rattling about patents at the start of android, numerous institutions switching to and then back from FOSS equivalents of office repeating Microsoft PR verbatim as if it was facts... From the outside, it looked like a big deal. Very interesting to hear it from the other side though, thanks.
  - graiz 4y ago
    My comments were objective, rather than subjective. Microsoft had a competitive OS lab and regularly tested off-the-street users on common tasks using Linux, OSX, Sun, BeOS, and others. In the XP days Mac would win on brand metrics and Microsoft would win on Usability. Linux won on power features but this was a detractor for more novice users.
    - fartcannon 4y ago
      Are those results somewhere? I'm extremely sure I could poke holes in their methodology.

jchw 4y ago

I think when it comes to big companies of any sort, not just big tech, a lot of unloved initiatives are also not well-liked from within, but even fairly critical people tolerate it as long as they’re not in close proximity to it. I can only imagine others here can relate to the pressures of trying to balance pressure to prioritize short to mid-term business success vs investing in long-term gains and user trust. Maybe Google is a bit of a weirder case, but I was there when Dragonfly was uncovered and though some people quit, most people just complained. (To be sure, I definitely understand that some company culture would be more aggressive against internal dialogue like this. I’m somewhat neutral on it as it definitely had its ups and downs.)

fartcannon 4y ago
I used to work in a field that clashed with my personal ethics. Took me a decade to figure out it. More than enough time to be culpable. Life is interesting.

graiz 4y ago

Keep in mind that at the time Microsoft was being sued for being anti-competitive behaviour by Netscape and there were a lot of attention on the company for being a bad actor. Most of Microsofts's patents were defensive (they rarely used them offensively to my knowledge). There was a group of execs that were nervous about Linux but the lack of UI/UX/Usability strength put most of the focus on server capabilities. To this day many people want Linux to be a broader desktop OS but the only strong and focused effort on this are ironically ChromeOS and Android.

fartcannon 4y ago
Interesting, from the outside it definitely appeared like there was a lot of effort into destabilizing footholds Linux and FOSS were making. There was the whole 'true cost of ownership' advertisement FUD, attempts to paint the desktop experience as poor (as you just did) when it was and continues to be a superior experience ever since KDE 3.5 (imo, of course), the sabre rattling about patents at the start of android, numerous institutions switching to and then back from FOSS equivalents of office repeating Microsoft PR verbatim as if it was facts... From the outside, it looked like a big deal. Very interesting to hear it from the other side though, thanks.
- graiz 4y ago
  My comments were objective, rather than subjective. Microsoft had a competitive OS lab and regularly tested off-the-street users on common tasks using Linux, OSX, Sun, BeOS, and others. In the XP days Mac would win on brand metrics and Microsoft would win on Usability. Linux won on power features but this was a detractor for more novice users.
  - fartcannon 4y ago
    Are those results somewhere? I'm extremely sure I could poke holes in their methodology.