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Considering that batteries still only last about a day and Apple led this shift to non-user-swappable batteries they still deserve some blame for landfill cultu

Considering that batteries still only last about a day and Apple led this shift to non-user-swappable batteries they still deserve some blame for landfill culture. Most of their efforts around repair appear to be the minimum anyone motivated by new sales would do once faced with looming regulation. Even if at cost the extreme sophistication and complexity of such tools reinforces the point that these devices aren't really built for repair. They're built for eye appeal first and foremost.

saagarjha 4y ago
> Considering that batteries still only last about a day and Apple led this shift to non-user-swappable batteries they still deserve some blame for landfill culture. Sure, but it seems like this makes phones thinner and lighter and consumers want that. It "sucks" that Apple gave them that option and they went for it, but I don't consider this to be inherently malicious. > Even if at cost the extreme sophistication and complexity of such tools reinforces the point that these devices aren't really built for repair. They're built for eye appeal first and foremost. …these are the tools that Apple uses to repair your phone?
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  Intent is less important when we're burning the world for blue bubbles, cheaper waterproofing, and a few millimeters thinner. If iphones had to be priced with externalities included (via regulation) I suspect they'd get user replaceable batteries shortly there after.
  - ctbeiser 4y ago
    I suspect that of all the things burning the world, it's mostly oil and cars. iPhones are unusually useful, but they're not unusually resource intensive.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      Just because something is worse doesn't mean we should ignore the problems of the first.
      - mikestew 4y ago
        If you've ever heard someone talk about frying fish, and how they have bigger ones that need frying, they're probably speaking metaphorically.
        paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Some things are mutually exclusive. User serviceable phones and more sustainable transportation are not.
- ASalazarMX 4y ago
  > Sure, but it seems like this makes phones thinner and lighter and consumers want that Or Apple devices are also a tech fashion statement, so their loyal consumers will put up with everything Apple changes. iPhones could show off their sleek design if they weren't designed to need a case. People definitely wanted bigger screens and batteries for years, and Apple was very reluctant until the iPhone 10. I'm sure many iPhone users miss the fingerprint reader, but they won't get it, and they will still buy the next model because the slight and gratuitous design differences make it obvious you're using an old iPhone.
  - nemothekid 4y ago
    >Or Apple devices are also a tech fashion statement, so their loyal consumers will put up with everything Apple changes. This argument is tired; it doesn't explain why every other manufacturer on the planet has also gone down this route. It's just an argument that helps nerds feel good (those other guys aren't real techies, like me, they only care about fashion).
    - ASalazarMX 4y ago
      Why are there so many imitation Louis Vuitton bags? If Apple makes a fashion phone with an hourglass shape, and they make money, others will copy it. just as Apple copied bigger screens and batteries, but labeled it as "Pro" or "Max" so following a trend felt new.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      Leading fashion brands have network effects and it can create something like Stockholm syndrome to those who buy into it. Other manufacturers often follow leading brands for prestige, or because people become accustomed, not always because the direction is objectively better when accounting for costs to future generations.
      - pdoege 4y ago
        No, it's because Apple phones have margin. They make money. Their competitors desperately want to make money. They make their money selling phones wholesale into retailing supply chains. One of the rules of those supply chains is that the OEM eats the costs of early returns. So they removed every widget that they possibly could and then glued everything down so that it could not possibly come loose, be dropped, wedged etc. during the warranty period. Battery doors, headphone jacks, you name it. All gone. End customers don't seem to care. Phones with swappable batteries, headphone jacks, etc. exist. They don't sell well in high margin markets.
losvedir 4y ago
> Considering that batteries still only last about a day and Apple led this shift to non-user-swappable batteries they still deserve some blame for landfill culture. I disagree. I think you're conflating home user repairability with longevity of the device. Just because the user can't repair it at home doesn't mean it goes in the garbage. More realistically a broken phone will be traded in, Apple will repair it, and it will be sold refurbished. Apple phones hold their value very well, and there is a booming second-hand market, even including officially by Apple. I wouldn't be surprised if the average lifetime of an Apple phone exceeded that of even a "repair friendly" Android phone. I'd love to see data on that either way, but until we have it, you can't say whether the design of Apple phones contributes to landfill culture or not.
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  Apple is in a class of their own in some ways, so until they offer a repairable one I don't think a fair comparison can be made.

saagarjha 4y ago

> Considering that batteries still only last about a day and Apple led this shift to non-user-swappable batteries they still deserve some blame for landfill culture. Sure, but it seems like this makes phones thinner and lighter and consumers want that. It "sucks" that Apple gave them that option and they went for it, but I don't consider this to be inherently malicious. > Even if at cost the extreme sophistication and complexity of such tools reinforces the point that these devices aren't really built for repair. They're built for eye appeal first and foremost. …these are the tools that Apple uses to repair your phone?

paulryanrogers 4y ago
Intent is less important when we're burning the world for blue bubbles, cheaper waterproofing, and a few millimeters thinner. If iphones had to be priced with externalities included (via regulation) I suspect they'd get user replaceable batteries shortly there after.
- ctbeiser 4y ago
  I suspect that of all the things burning the world, it's mostly oil and cars. iPhones are unusually useful, but they're not unusually resource intensive.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    Just because something is worse doesn't mean we should ignore the problems of the first.
    - mikestew 4y ago
      If you've ever heard someone talk about frying fish, and how they have bigger ones that need frying, they're probably speaking metaphorically.
      - paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Some things are mutually exclusive. User serviceable phones and more sustainable transportation are not.
ASalazarMX 4y ago
> Sure, but it seems like this makes phones thinner and lighter and consumers want that Or Apple devices are also a tech fashion statement, so their loyal consumers will put up with everything Apple changes. iPhones could show off their sleek design if they weren't designed to need a case. People definitely wanted bigger screens and batteries for years, and Apple was very reluctant until the iPhone 10. I'm sure many iPhone users miss the fingerprint reader, but they won't get it, and they will still buy the next model because the slight and gratuitous design differences make it obvious you're using an old iPhone.
- nemothekid 4y ago
  >Or Apple devices are also a tech fashion statement, so their loyal consumers will put up with everything Apple changes. This argument is tired; it doesn't explain why every other manufacturer on the planet has also gone down this route. It's just an argument that helps nerds feel good (those other guys aren't real techies, like me, they only care about fashion).
  - ASalazarMX 4y ago
    Why are there so many imitation Louis Vuitton bags? If Apple makes a fashion phone with an hourglass shape, and they make money, others will copy it. just as Apple copied bigger screens and batteries, but labeled it as "Pro" or "Max" so following a trend felt new.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    Leading fashion brands have network effects and it can create something like Stockholm syndrome to those who buy into it. Other manufacturers often follow leading brands for prestige, or because people become accustomed, not always because the direction is objectively better when accounting for costs to future generations.
    - pdoege 4y ago
      No, it's because Apple phones have margin. They make money. Their competitors desperately want to make money. They make their money selling phones wholesale into retailing supply chains. One of the rules of those supply chains is that the OEM eats the costs of early returns. So they removed every widget that they possibly could and then glued everything down so that it could not possibly come loose, be dropped, wedged etc. during the warranty period. Battery doors, headphone jacks, you name it. All gone. End customers don't seem to care. Phones with swappable batteries, headphone jacks, etc. exist. They don't sell well in high margin markets.

losvedir 4y ago

> Considering that batteries still only last about a day and Apple led this shift to non-user-swappable batteries they still deserve some blame for landfill culture. I disagree. I think you're conflating home user repairability with longevity of the device. Just because the user can't repair it at home doesn't mean it goes in the garbage. More realistically a broken phone will be traded in, Apple will repair it, and it will be sold refurbished. Apple phones hold their value very well, and there is a booming second-hand market, even including officially by Apple. I wouldn't be surprised if the average lifetime of an Apple phone exceeded that of even a "repair friendly" Android phone. I'd love to see data on that either way, but until we have it, you can't say whether the design of Apple phones contributes to landfill culture or not.

paulryanrogers 4y ago
Apple is in a class of their own in some ways, so until they offer a repairable one I don't think a fair comparison can be made.