4 ms·

The pure definition, though, is still the common definition in most of Central America and in Latino communities. Feels odd to erase that correct, active defini

by mvid 4y ago

The pure definition, though, is still the common definition in most of Central America and in Latino communities. Feels odd to erase that correct, active definition because it was used for marketing unrelated things in unrelated places

jhgb 4y ago
Let me know once people in the US stop referring to meat-filled pastry as "koláče". I was horrified to find out about that. But I wouldn't hold my breath on that one either.
- cleansingfire 4y ago
  The only place I've seen kolatches (sp.) was fifty years ago in the little town of West, TX (and it's not really in West Texas, but more in between Fort Worth and Austin.) Those were pastries filled with various delicious things, including sausage and fruit.) I don't think I've ever seen kolatches anywhere else. I'd love to find more, and learn the difference. They are far from common in the USA sadly.
  - jhgb 4y ago
    I'm not sure I could tell you anything more than Wikipedia can already tell you in my stead. Sausages simply have nothing to do with koláče; koláče are basically sweets. You wouldn't put a sausage in a cake either, I'm sure.
    - buildsjets 4y ago
      I sure as heck would put a sausage in a cake, and I do so frequently. It’s delicious, and it’s called “Pigs in a Blanket.” https://reluctantentertainer.com/buttermilk-pancake-pigs-in-a-blanket/ https://reluctantentertainer.com/buttermilk-pancake-pigs-in-...
      - jhgb 4y ago
        Isn't that massively stretching the definition of a "cake"? When I wrote "cake", I meant this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cake#/media/File:Pound_layer_cake.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cake#/media/File:Pound_layer_c... -- do you put a sausage in those?
        buildsjets 4y ago
        These all sound awesome, I think I will have to make one of them this weekend. The "Old Time Pork Cake" is calling to me. https://www.texascooking.com/recipes/sausage-bundt-cake.htm https://www.texascooking.com/recipes/sausage-bundt-cake.htm https://newfoundland.ws/christmas-old-time-pork-cake-recipe/ https://newfoundland.ws/christmas-old-time-pork-cake-recipe/ https://eatwithjean.com/pork-floss-roll-cake/ https://eatwithjean.com/pork-floss-roll-cake/
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    They can be found quite easily in Austin and New Orleans.
- t-3 4y ago
  Never heard of 'em. Is it like a pasty?
  - jhgb 4y ago
    It's supposed to look like this https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kol%C3%A1%C4%8D#/media/Soubor:Kol%C3%A1%C4%8Dky.jpg https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kol%C3%A1%C4%8D#/media/Soubor:... , but apparently in the US, some people put meat in them, when they're actually supposed to be filled with prune plum spread ("povidla") or some other fruit filling, poppy seed filling, or quark.
  - bsg75 4y ago
    Pasty - a term I did expect to see on HN. Referring to the Finnish variety or other ?
    - t-3 4y ago
      Yep, I have a lot of family in Copper Country.
- reaperducer 4y ago
  Let me know once people in the US stop referring to meat-filled pastry as "koláče". Kolaches mean different things in different parts of the U.S. In Chicago, they're often filled with sweet things, and sold by mom-and-pop shops and bakeries. In Houston, they're mainly for breakfast, with things like eggs, bacon, sausage, brisket, etc. and sold by chains like Shipley's and Kolache Factory: https://kolachefactory.com https://kolachefactory.com Recently, the Houston version of kolaches has made inroads into Chicago: https://www.howdykolache.com https://www.howdykolache.com
  - jhgb 4y ago
    Yeah, and eggs, bacons, sausages, and briskets have no business being in a sweet dish such as koláč (which looks like this: https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kol%C3%A1%C4%8D#/media/Soubor:Kol%C3%A1%C4%8Dky.jpg https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kol%C3%A1%C4%8D#/media/Soubor:...).
    - reaperducer 4y ago
      That looks like a topless paczki. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pączki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pączki Paczki Day is almost as big a holiday in Chicago as Casimir Pulaski Day.
      - jhgb 4y ago
        If pączki are anything like Czech koblihy (to which they bear an uncanny resemblance -- cf. https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobliha#/media/Soubor:Picswiss_BL-57-12.jpg https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobliha#/media/Soubor:Picswiss...), then their dough is must be very different from dough for koláče.
sampo 4y ago
> Feels odd to erase that correct, active definition I think this is because Americans feel big-brotherly protective (in a creepy way) about their Latin American communities. Altered versions of e.g. Italian food (e.g. pasta carbonara with cream, deep dish pizza, submarine sandwiches, chicken parmesan), Japanese food (California roll, Philadelphia roll), Chinese food (fortune cookies, General Tso's chicken, beef and broccoli) don't cause similar reactions.
- teakettle42 4y ago
  > Altered versions of e.g. Italian food (e.g. pasta carbonara with cream, deep dish pizza, submarine sandwiches, chicken parmesan) ... don't cause similar reactions. Like hell they don't! Most of your examples are just ignorable new inventions, but the reinterpretation of spaghetti carbonara (not pasta carbonara, you heathen) as a shitty cream sauce? I'll go to the mat to decry that horrendously disgusting perversion. Anyone that prefers that hot mess probably also puts ranch dressing on everything, including pizza, and thinks Velveeta "queso" is delicious.
- pseudalopex 4y ago
  Americans celebrated a fast food chain bringing back Mexican pizza recently. Other Americans never miss a chance to declare sushi rolls aren't proper sushi.
hombre_fatal 4y ago
On the other hand, having lived in Mexico for almost a decade now, these explanations tend to merely be nothing but the unholy combo of pedantry + incorrect, with a big component that smells a lot like "I just traveled to exotic lands and I will tell you how those people eat" or "I had a taco during my layover in <some Mexican city> and can tell you what all tacos are". Because the reality is that you can find tacos and food items of many variations in Mexico (or wherever) that the people there will call a taco, and they'll do it without any of the sort of snobbery you find in these comments. Like, tacos are a single ingredient food item? Then why can I find people slopping on any number of side items down the street in Guadalajara? And it's still labeled a taco? They really need to read HN and become illuminated. They're wrong. Frankly, the idea that Mexican cuisine (or whichever cuisine) was frozen in some snapshot back in history—and anything they do eat since then is "incorrect"—does more to erase reality than pointing out that maybe the cuisine is much more varied than someone on HN thinks. And all of this is said before even getting into regional variations like what happens to cuisines once they cross borders into different cultures. Americans eat hard-shell tacos? It's a lot more interesting to me to explore why that is than to roll our eyes at how people are ugh doing it wrong. Maybe artifacts of one culture changing when they enter other cultures is the beauty of culture rather something that needs to be corrected.

by mvid 4y ago

jhgb 4y ago

Let me know once people in the US stop referring to meat-filled pastry as "koláče". I was horrified to find out about that. But I wouldn't hold my breath on that one either.

cleansingfire 4y ago
The only place I've seen kolatches (sp.) was fifty years ago in the little town of West, TX (and it's not really in West Texas, but more in between Fort Worth and Austin.) Those were pastries filled with various delicious things, including sausage and fruit.) I don't think I've ever seen kolatches anywhere else. I'd love to find more, and learn the difference. They are far from common in the USA sadly.
- jhgb 4y ago
  I'm not sure I could tell you anything more than Wikipedia can already tell you in my stead. Sausages simply have nothing to do with koláče; koláče are basically sweets. You wouldn't put a sausage in a cake either, I'm sure.
  - buildsjets 4y ago
    I sure as heck would put a sausage in a cake, and I do so frequently. It’s delicious, and it’s called “Pigs in a Blanket.” https://reluctantentertainer.com/buttermilk-pancake-pigs-in-a-blanket/ https://reluctantentertainer.com/buttermilk-pancake-pigs-in-...
    - jhgb 4y ago
      Isn't that massively stretching the definition of a "cake"? When I wrote "cake", I meant this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cake#/media/File:Pound_layer_cake.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cake#/media/File:Pound_layer_c... -- do you put a sausage in those?
      - buildsjets 4y ago
        These all sound awesome, I think I will have to make one of them this weekend. The "Old Time Pork Cake" is calling to me. https://www.texascooking.com/recipes/sausage-bundt-cake.htm https://www.texascooking.com/recipes/sausage-bundt-cake.htm https://newfoundland.ws/christmas-old-time-pork-cake-recipe/ https://newfoundland.ws/christmas-old-time-pork-cake-recipe/ https://eatwithjean.com/pork-floss-roll-cake/ https://eatwithjean.com/pork-floss-roll-cake/
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  They can be found quite easily in Austin and New Orleans.
t-3 4y ago
Never heard of 'em. Is it like a pasty?
- jhgb 4y ago
  It's supposed to look like this https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kol%C3%A1%C4%8D#/media/Soubor:Kol%C3%A1%C4%8Dky.jpg https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kol%C3%A1%C4%8D#/media/Soubor:... , but apparently in the US, some people put meat in them, when they're actually supposed to be filled with prune plum spread ("povidla") or some other fruit filling, poppy seed filling, or quark.
- bsg75 4y ago
  Pasty - a term I did expect to see on HN. Referring to the Finnish variety or other ?
  - t-3 4y ago
    Yep, I have a lot of family in Copper Country.
reaperducer 4y ago
Let me know once people in the US stop referring to meat-filled pastry as "koláče". Kolaches mean different things in different parts of the U.S. In Chicago, they're often filled with sweet things, and sold by mom-and-pop shops and bakeries. In Houston, they're mainly for breakfast, with things like eggs, bacon, sausage, brisket, etc. and sold by chains like Shipley's and Kolache Factory: https://kolachefactory.com https://kolachefactory.com Recently, the Houston version of kolaches has made inroads into Chicago: https://www.howdykolache.com https://www.howdykolache.com
- jhgb 4y ago
  Yeah, and eggs, bacons, sausages, and briskets have no business being in a sweet dish such as koláč (which looks like this: https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kol%C3%A1%C4%8D#/media/Soubor:Kol%C3%A1%C4%8Dky.jpg https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kol%C3%A1%C4%8D#/media/Soubor:...).
  - reaperducer 4y ago
    That looks like a topless paczki. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pączki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pączki Paczki Day is almost as big a holiday in Chicago as Casimir Pulaski Day.
    - jhgb 4y ago
      If pączki are anything like Czech koblihy (to which they bear an uncanny resemblance -- cf. https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobliha#/media/Soubor:Picswiss_BL-57-12.jpg https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobliha#/media/Soubor:Picswiss...), then their dough is must be very different from dough for koláče.

sampo 4y ago

> Feels odd to erase that correct, active definition I think this is because Americans feel big-brotherly protective (in a creepy way) about their Latin American communities. Altered versions of e.g. Italian food (e.g. pasta carbonara with cream, deep dish pizza, submarine sandwiches, chicken parmesan), Japanese food (California roll, Philadelphia roll), Chinese food (fortune cookies, General Tso's chicken, beef and broccoli) don't cause similar reactions.

teakettle42 4y ago
> Altered versions of e.g. Italian food (e.g. pasta carbonara with cream, deep dish pizza, submarine sandwiches, chicken parmesan) ... don't cause similar reactions. Like hell they don't! Most of your examples are just ignorable new inventions, but the reinterpretation of spaghetti carbonara (not pasta carbonara, you heathen) as a shitty cream sauce? I'll go to the mat to decry that horrendously disgusting perversion. Anyone that prefers that hot mess probably also puts ranch dressing on everything, including pizza, and thinks Velveeta "queso" is delicious.
pseudalopex 4y ago
Americans celebrated a fast food chain bringing back Mexican pizza recently. Other Americans never miss a chance to declare sushi rolls aren't proper sushi.

hombre_fatal 4y ago

On the other hand, having lived in Mexico for almost a decade now, these explanations tend to merely be nothing but the unholy combo of pedantry + incorrect, with a big component that smells a lot like "I just traveled to exotic lands and I will tell you how those people eat" or "I had a taco during my layover in <some Mexican city> and can tell you what all tacos are". Because the reality is that you can find tacos and food items of many variations in Mexico (or wherever) that the people there will call a taco, and they'll do it without any of the sort of snobbery you find in these comments. Like, tacos are a single ingredient food item? Then why can I find people slopping on any number of side items down the street in Guadalajara? And it's still labeled a taco? They really need to read HN and become illuminated. They're wrong. Frankly, the idea that Mexican cuisine (or whichever cuisine) was frozen in some snapshot back in history—and anything they do eat since then is "incorrect"—does more to erase reality than pointing out that maybe the cuisine is much more varied than someone on HN thinks. And all of this is said before even getting into regional variations like what happens to cuisines once they cross borders into different cultures. Americans eat hard-shell tacos? It's a lot more interesting to me to explore why that is than to roll our eyes at how people are ugh doing it wrong. Maybe artifacts of one culture changing when they enter other cultures is the beauty of culture rather something that needs to be corrected.