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Right-to-repair in no way prevents or hampers Apple's ability to offer that service. If people want the current state, they can continue to pay for it. Right to

Right-to-repair in no way prevents or hampers Apple's ability to offer that service. If people want the current state, they can continue to pay for it. Right to repair offers strictly more options and choice, it doesn't remove anything

jeffbee 4y ago
It removes the ability of the manufacturer to make a phone that is the size and weight people prefer and has the features they want. Billions of people want a waterproof phone and I doubt you could even fill a bus with people who really give a damn whether or not the battery is replaceable in the field.
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  For buyers of new devices that may be true. Yet I've sold plenty of phones I had bought second hand (after years of my own use), and those with user swappable batteries are far more likely to be reused without great expense. More so if they also have an SDcard slot to minimize wear on the soldered storage. As phone features plateau we should strive to make them last longer and avoid unnecessarily consuming tons of new material every year. (IIRC a single iphone consumes like 0.5 tons of materials to go from the ground to the pocket.)
  - jeffbee 4y ago
    The facts aren't really on your side of the argument. The glued-together Apple phones are the ones least likely to be in the trash. They are still shipping the latest software on phones from 2015. By contrast, removable-battery phones are all garbage practically as soon as you open the box. The Samsung XCover is only 2 years old, might not even get Android 12, and definitely will never get anything after Android 12.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      Imagine a world in which iphones still had user swappable batteries. They would almost certainly retain their appeal and fewer would end up in landfills. The fact that they've become a luxury brand is a compounding factor you cannot dismiss. You're comparing apples to oranges.
      - nasmorn 4y ago
        I have had batteries replaced by random repair shops for 40 euros before. If I could have done it for 20 in parts how does that change the calculus compared to a new phone?
        paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Phones are more likely to end up in landfills when batteries and basic repairs aren't user serviceable. The calculus should include externalities like the cost in resources for new phone vs only a new battery.
    - desmondwillow 4y ago
      > By contrast, removable-battery phones are all garbage practically as soon as you open the box. The Samsung XCover is only 2 years old, might not even get Android 12, and definitely will never get anything after Android 12. That isn't a property intrinsic to removable-battery phones; An Apple phone with a removable battery would be the best in terms of software and battery longevity, both of which are factors which serve to prolong the life of the phone.
  - ddingus 4y ago
    Ars technical has a story running on the topic of "lost" limited natural resources. It speaks right to how landfill mining is likely to be a thing in a less distant future than many of us are likely to expect. https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/05/new-study-estimates-how-long-mined-metals-circulate-before-being-lost/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/05/new-study-estimates-...
  - ashwagary 4y ago
    Waterproof or governmental pressure? Hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but tracking devices dont work so well if the person being tracked can completely disable them when they wish.
- kllrnohj 4y ago
  No it doesn't. Requiring Apple to sell or allow 3rd party replacement parts as well as providing repair documentation does not in any way prevent them from making the phone they currently are. You're confusing (perhaps intentionally) right to repair with the EU's proposal to mandate easily swappable batteries. They are not the same thing.
  - spookthesunset 4y ago
    You can sell the parts and manual, sure. But making it easy for a layman with non specialized tools? That is a tall order against cost, weight and waterproofing.
    - kllrnohj 4y ago
      Being easy isn't a primary goal. Simply being possible at all is the goal: https://www.repair.org/policy https://www.repair.org/policy
    - ddingus 4y ago
      The goal is to make sure things are possible When they are, there will be plenty of people capable of making it easy. There always are.
- gambiting 4y ago
  I hate how we have collectively forgotten that there were waterproof phones long before this nonsense from Apple(and others, to be fair). Bah, we even had waterproof phones with removable battery doors. But of course, now somehow humanity forgot how to make those and the only way is gluing everything together.
- ddingus 4y ago
  You can fill that bus any time, any day. In the US, roughly half the population works for less money than it costs them to exist and show up for work! How they view the world is very different than the roughly quarter of the population doing well enough to see these discussions lack relevance to them and how they live and work. There are shared responsibilities. Nothing gets designed, used and fixed in a vacuum. Ignoring how we fix things insures our design and manufacturing work raises the cost and difficulty of repair and repurpose.
- ashwagary 4y ago
  If by replaceable you include easily-changeable so one doesnt have to be tethered to a wall or portable charger, you could fill stadiums with business users easily.

jeffbee 4y ago

It removes the ability of the manufacturer to make a phone that is the size and weight people prefer and has the features they want. Billions of people want a waterproof phone and I doubt you could even fill a bus with people who really give a damn whether or not the battery is replaceable in the field.

paulryanrogers 4y ago
For buyers of new devices that may be true. Yet I've sold plenty of phones I had bought second hand (after years of my own use), and those with user swappable batteries are far more likely to be reused without great expense. More so if they also have an SDcard slot to minimize wear on the soldered storage. As phone features plateau we should strive to make them last longer and avoid unnecessarily consuming tons of new material every year. (IIRC a single iphone consumes like 0.5 tons of materials to go from the ground to the pocket.)
- jeffbee 4y ago
  The facts aren't really on your side of the argument. The glued-together Apple phones are the ones least likely to be in the trash. They are still shipping the latest software on phones from 2015. By contrast, removable-battery phones are all garbage practically as soon as you open the box. The Samsung XCover is only 2 years old, might not even get Android 12, and definitely will never get anything after Android 12.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    Imagine a world in which iphones still had user swappable batteries. They would almost certainly retain their appeal and fewer would end up in landfills. The fact that they've become a luxury brand is a compounding factor you cannot dismiss. You're comparing apples to oranges.
    - nasmorn 4y ago
      I have had batteries replaced by random repair shops for 40 euros before. If I could have done it for 20 in parts how does that change the calculus compared to a new phone?
      - paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Phones are more likely to end up in landfills when batteries and basic repairs aren't user serviceable. The calculus should include externalities like the cost in resources for new phone vs only a new battery.
  - desmondwillow 4y ago
    > By contrast, removable-battery phones are all garbage practically as soon as you open the box. The Samsung XCover is only 2 years old, might not even get Android 12, and definitely will never get anything after Android 12. That isn't a property intrinsic to removable-battery phones; An Apple phone with a removable battery would be the best in terms of software and battery longevity, both of which are factors which serve to prolong the life of the phone.
- ddingus 4y ago
  Ars technical has a story running on the topic of "lost" limited natural resources. It speaks right to how landfill mining is likely to be a thing in a less distant future than many of us are likely to expect. https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/05/new-study-estimates-how-long-mined-metals-circulate-before-being-lost/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/05/new-study-estimates-...
- ashwagary 4y ago
  Waterproof or governmental pressure? Hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but tracking devices dont work so well if the person being tracked can completely disable them when they wish.
kllrnohj 4y ago
No it doesn't. Requiring Apple to sell or allow 3rd party replacement parts as well as providing repair documentation does not in any way prevent them from making the phone they currently are. You're confusing (perhaps intentionally) right to repair with the EU's proposal to mandate easily swappable batteries. They are not the same thing.
- spookthesunset 4y ago
  You can sell the parts and manual, sure. But making it easy for a layman with non specialized tools? That is a tall order against cost, weight and waterproofing.
  - kllrnohj 4y ago
    Being easy isn't a primary goal. Simply being possible at all is the goal: https://www.repair.org/policy https://www.repair.org/policy
  - ddingus 4y ago
    The goal is to make sure things are possible When they are, there will be plenty of people capable of making it easy. There always are.
gambiting 4y ago
I hate how we have collectively forgotten that there were waterproof phones long before this nonsense from Apple(and others, to be fair). Bah, we even had waterproof phones with removable battery doors. But of course, now somehow humanity forgot how to make those and the only way is gluing everything together.
ddingus 4y ago
You can fill that bus any time, any day. In the US, roughly half the population works for less money than it costs them to exist and show up for work! How they view the world is very different than the roughly quarter of the population doing well enough to see these discussions lack relevance to them and how they live and work. There are shared responsibilities. Nothing gets designed, used and fixed in a vacuum. Ignoring how we fix things insures our design and manufacturing work raises the cost and difficulty of repair and repurpose.
ashwagary 4y ago
If by replaceable you include easily-changeable so one doesnt have to be tethered to a wall or portable charger, you could fill stadiums with business users easily.