4 ms·

We're regressing to a state reminiscent of the dark IE years. Except back then when you suggested alternative browsers, people were generally receptive once th

We're regressing to a state reminiscent of the dark IE years. Except back then when you suggested alternative browsers, people were generally receptive once they saw the practical utility of features like tabs. Now when you suggest alternative browsers, people complain about tens of milliseconds more latency and insist on using Chrome for the speed. It's hard to blame them though, since the practical advantages of Firefox are slipping away as Mozilla focuses on more abstract advantages, like privacy, freedom, etc. Noble causes to be sure, reason enough for me to continue using Firefox even if it were a hundred times slower. But I think most people are looking for practical advantages; Firefox usage continues to decline and I don't have much hope for these trends turning around anytime soon.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
pjmlp 4y ago
Even if FOSS fans don't like it, it is iOS/Safari that is the last block preventing the Web platform to be finally renamed to Chrome OS.
- robonerd 4y ago
  Liking it is beyond the point, it isn't available for me to use unless I replace my phone and computers. But yes I think you're right, Firefox has become so thoroughly marginalized that Safari seems like the last meaningful resistance to the Chrome monoculture.
- ocdtrekkie 4y ago
  Unfortunately there are literally activists promoted to ending that final stand protecting the open web.
  - simion314 4y ago
    The reality is people want freedom to use Firefox or Chrome in iOs, they don't want a monopoly , imagine if Microsoft would not have allowed you to install a third pary browser unless it uses their engine and it accepts their rules, then we would all still use IE6 but with different themes and superficial features. Safari needs to implement the standards and offer decent performance, adding on top of that very good integration with the OS and it should win on Apple OSes. Also Apple users please demand Apple to sacrifice a bit of their profit and offer web developers some way to test their websites/code on Safari(including Betas for free) , either by providing test virtual machines images or some Web Based service. Safari Beta not only requiers you have Apple hardware and OS it requires you update to latest version (you maybe don't want to be forced to latest version).
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      Beware of one wishes for, in the end they will get Chrome everywhere anyway, because Firefox doesn't really matter, and there are no Web standards other than what Google is pushing from ChromeOS as standards, Project Fugus, Houdini, WebUSB, Web Bluetooth,...
      - simion314 4y ago
        So should we all suffer because Apple is greedy and fails to win in a fair fight with Google Chrome ?
        pjmlp 4y ago
        What is fair about bending W3C into Chrome OS? Ah, Google isn't Microsoft, and that do no evil stuff.
        simion314 4y ago
        If your problem is with bad developers not following the standards then why is your solution to screw the users. Find a solution for the problem bad developers and greedy companies. Such a solution for preventing IE6 like cases is to remind Apple that users should be able to install alternative browsers. I test my stuff in Firefox and Chrome, can't check Safari or Safari Beta so if you really want more support for Safari you need to ask Apple to sacrifice a bit of profit and give developers virtual machines or whatever web service to be able to test their code. But if you are honest with yourself you know the exact reason why Firefox is not allowed to be an option on iOS and the answer is simple, profits and sure a company is obligated to max out profits.
        pjmlp 4y ago
        The users have the option not to buy Apple devices.
        simion314 4y ago
tyrfing 4y ago
That ship sailed when developers collectively decided that browsers should be complete reimplementations of the entire operating system, and anything less was hopelessly broken. With a barrier to entry so high that trillion dollar companies don't find it worth the investment, it's no surprise that the last independent implementation is struggling to keep up.
- userbinator 4y ago
  when developers collectively decided Based entirely on propaganda from the one company that is rapidly taking control of the whole Internet.
account42 4y ago
> Mozilla focuses on more abstract advantages, like privacy Mozilla marketing focuses on that. Mozilla development still uses opt-out telemetry, experiments on users without consent and they still have Google Analytics on their websites.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

pjmlp 4y ago

Even if FOSS fans don't like it, it is iOS/Safari that is the last block preventing the Web platform to be finally renamed to Chrome OS.

robonerd 4y ago
Liking it is beyond the point, it isn't available for me to use unless I replace my phone and computers. But yes I think you're right, Firefox has become so thoroughly marginalized that Safari seems like the last meaningful resistance to the Chrome monoculture.
ocdtrekkie 4y ago
Unfortunately there are literally activists promoted to ending that final stand protecting the open web.
- simion314 4y ago
  The reality is people want freedom to use Firefox or Chrome in iOs, they don't want a monopoly , imagine if Microsoft would not have allowed you to install a third pary browser unless it uses their engine and it accepts their rules, then we would all still use IE6 but with different themes and superficial features. Safari needs to implement the standards and offer decent performance, adding on top of that very good integration with the OS and it should win on Apple OSes. Also Apple users please demand Apple to sacrifice a bit of their profit and offer web developers some way to test their websites/code on Safari(including Betas for free) , either by providing test virtual machines images or some Web Based service. Safari Beta not only requiers you have Apple hardware and OS it requires you update to latest version (you maybe don't want to be forced to latest version).
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Beware of one wishes for, in the end they will get Chrome everywhere anyway, because Firefox doesn't really matter, and there are no Web standards other than what Google is pushing from ChromeOS as standards, Project Fugus, Houdini, WebUSB, Web Bluetooth,...
    - simion314 4y ago
      So should we all suffer because Apple is greedy and fails to win in a fair fight with Google Chrome ?
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        What is fair about bending W3C into Chrome OS? Ah, Google isn't Microsoft, and that do no evil stuff.
        simion314 4y ago
        If your problem is with bad developers not following the standards then why is your solution to screw the users. Find a solution for the problem bad developers and greedy companies. Such a solution for preventing IE6 like cases is to remind Apple that users should be able to install alternative browsers. I test my stuff in Firefox and Chrome, can't check Safari or Safari Beta so if you really want more support for Safari you need to ask Apple to sacrifice a bit of profit and give developers virtual machines or whatever web service to be able to test their code. But if you are honest with yourself you know the exact reason why Firefox is not allowed to be an option on iOS and the answer is simple, profits and sure a company is obligated to max out profits.
        pjmlp 4y ago
        The users have the option not to buy Apple devices.
        simion314 4y ago

tyrfing 4y ago

That ship sailed when developers collectively decided that browsers should be complete reimplementations of the entire operating system, and anything less was hopelessly broken. With a barrier to entry so high that trillion dollar companies don't find it worth the investment, it's no surprise that the last independent implementation is struggling to keep up.

userbinator 4y ago
when developers collectively decided Based entirely on propaganda from the one company that is rapidly taking control of the whole Internet.

account42 4y ago

> Mozilla focuses on more abstract advantages, like privacy Mozilla marketing focuses on that. Mozilla development still uses opt-out telemetry, experiments on users without consent and they still have Google Analytics on their websites.