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I view this differently. This article is documenting a process people are surely curious about. But the costly deposit and multiple heavy pelican cases of suppl

I view this differently. This article is documenting a process people are surely curious about. But the costly deposit and multiple heavy pelican cases of supplies show just how deep the hole Apple has dug for themselves really is. Apple is so anti-repair they have no provisions for a reasonable at home process. You must realize that a $1200 deposit alone means this process is out of reach of many people. Meanwhile I recently pulled all my old smartphones from a storage bin and the rear cover pops right off, revealing a battery which comes out with no effort. There’s even an affordance for your finger nail to catch the edge of the rectangular cell. Obviously newer phones are waterproof and arguably more durable, but Apple has gone so far towards a factory sealed design as to require absurd equipment to do a proper job. What this all makes me wonder is: what would this all be like if Apple had never dismissed user replaceable batteries? If they had just as many years of engineering behind a removable back cover as they do with high resolution screens and custom processors? How many billions have they spent on this and that improvement, and what would the phone look like today if some of that had gone to making a phone not destined for the landfill? To me, the size and cost of their DIY repair kit is a monument to how far from repair Apple has strayed. Fortunately I suspect that if they stick with user serviceable batteries, the process will be a whole lot simpler once they’ve really put some engineering effort in to it.

sokoloff 4y ago
You have a storage bin holding old smartphones with readily replaceable batteries. That suggests to me that readily replaceable batteries isn't anywhere near the entire story in terms of keeping phones out the landfill (or in your case, a storage bin).
- salawat 4y ago
  You are correct. without datasheets, you have no way to even approach reprogramming a computer system. Those datasheets, schemata, and documentation are some of the closest, most tightly held trade secrets in the tech world. Increasingly, the world has gotten away from "sell thing to owner to own" to "sell hook for revenue extraction from User". part of which has also increasingly been "be the unofficial or unnoticed arm of power by keeping inconvenient things hard to acquire as determined by the parties in power". Say... industrial equipment without backdoors. Until I can load my own firmware/microcode, it ain't mine yet. I'd love to have a cobbled together group of heterogenous computing devices just for the novelty.
  - wrycoder 4y ago
    And that’s the reason to continue to grow the FLOSS / Open Hardware ecosystem. You don’t have to program or fix stuff yourself. But you should be able to hire your local shop to do it for you at reasonable expense and to keep your old, but good, stuff running as long as you like. While flip phones are disposable are their price point, that’s not true for hardware like smart phones or beyond. We need better, sustainable solutions.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- TaylorAlexander 4y ago
  The lack of user replaceable batteries is one symptom of a larger problem, yes. And the symptom being discussed today.
- bsder 4y ago
  Part of the issue with old smartphones and batteries is that every battery is a snowflake so eventually nobody is willing to produce the replacement battery anymore. Contrast this to car batteries where the form factor is specified within certain limits. This is, unfortunately, a point where the law probably has to step in and say "battery replacements must be available for 20 years" which would make it unpalatable to be a snowflake anymore. At that point, the suppliers would get together and agree on a "standard" battery form factor.
- usrn 4y ago
  Smartphone software being pure garbage along with the games Qualcomm and the network operators play make up the rest of the story.
madeofpalk 4y ago
> show just how deep the hole Apple has dug for themselves really is I guess it shows this hole to the public, but Apple's know this the whole time. They scale out in-store iPhone repair to 500 stores around the world where they have low-paid retail workers performing the repairs.
- jeffbee 4y ago
  And it's a great service, too. You pay $50 and wait a few minutes. You get a new, genuine OEM battery with a warranty that extends the life of your phone indefinitely. The right-to-repair people have just lost contact with reality. This is the way people want it to work. It is a great product experience.
  - kllrnohj 4y ago
    Right-to-repair in no way prevents or hampers Apple's ability to offer that service. If people want the current state, they can continue to pay for it. Right to repair offers strictly more options and choice, it doesn't remove anything
    - jeffbee 4y ago
      It removes the ability of the manufacturer to make a phone that is the size and weight people prefer and has the features they want. Billions of people want a waterproof phone and I doubt you could even fill a bus with people who really give a damn whether or not the battery is replaceable in the field.
      - paulryanrogers 4y ago
        For buyers of new devices that may be true. Yet I've sold plenty of phones I had bought second hand (after years of my own use), and those with user swappable batteries are far more likely to be reused without great expense. More so if they also have an SDcard slot to minimize wear on the soldered storage. As phone features plateau we should strive to make them last longer and avoid unnecessarily consuming tons of new material every year. (IIRC a single iphone consumes like 0.5 tons of materials to go from the ground to the pocket.)
js2 4y ago
It's a trade-off. I am someone who repairs my own stuff. I've repaired my fridge, my dishwasher, my oven, my microwave, my garage door openers, my 1998 Jeep Cherokee, and on and on. 99% of people do NOT do this. I've replaced the batteries in multiple first generation iPhone SEs. I'll never replace a battery again in an iPhone, nor do I ever desire too. The phones have become too hard to open, but in return, Apple offers battery replacement for a reasonable charge and a modern iPhone is nearly water proof, more durable, more compact, and with better battery life than ever. For a portable device like a phone, I'm happy with the trade-off, and I think the market shows that most consumers are too. The trade-off for a laptop is less clear to me, but nor is replacing the battery in a Macbook as hard as replacing it in an iPhone. The things that really drive me crazy though are devices that don't need to be sealed that are. Homepods, Sonos speakers, previous generation Apple chargers with hardwired cords, those sorts of things. I just had to order an entire new Vitamix S-series blade base for $75 that I could repair myself if they’d sell me just the rubber seals and a couple bearings — And I probably don’t even need the bearings from them since they look like standard 8mmx22mmx7mm skate wheel bearings, but who knows, maybe theirs are food safe. https://www.vitamix.com/us/en_us/shop/s-series-blade-base https://www.vitamix.com/us/en_us/shop/s-series-blade-base ($75 is probably even a fair price. It’s just the principle of the matter.) Anyway, I feel about this article as wfhordie does. It's not just descriptive of the process, which would be fine. It's filled with snark, and doesn't acknowledge the trade-offs in manufacturing a more easy to repair device. Engineering is always trafe-offs. Shame on The Verge.
- austinkhale 4y ago
  Playing devil’s advocate for just a second, I really appreciate that my Homepod & Sonos are sealed. It allows for longer device longevity when placed in high humidity environments (bathrooms, tropical areas, etc.). Definitely a trade-off game with all hardware devices & Apple (and others) are not blameless when it comes to engineering things to be purposefully difficult. However, I think we often underestimate the sheer number of environmental constraints an international hardware retailer with near universal demographic appeal has to account for in designs. Agree on everything else. The article gets a thumbs down.
- gernb 4y ago
arcticbull 4y ago
They don't force you into the tools, the deposit or anything else - they offer you parts at the same prices they offer to third-party service providers and Apple stores. They even offer you credit for returning the old parts. If have your own iFixit kit, the only thing you're on the hook for is parts cost. Access to the tools for what is likely at-cost shipping prices seems like an above-and-beyond thing to me that the right to repair folks weren't even asking for.
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  Considering that batteries still only last about a day and Apple led this shift to non-user-swappable batteries they still deserve some blame for landfill culture. Most of their efforts around repair appear to be the minimum anyone motivated by new sales would do once faced with looming regulation. Even if at cost the extreme sophistication and complexity of such tools reinforces the point that these devices aren't really built for repair. They're built for eye appeal first and foremost.
  - saagarjha 4y ago
    > Considering that batteries still only last about a day and Apple led this shift to non-user-swappable batteries they still deserve some blame for landfill culture. Sure, but it seems like this makes phones thinner and lighter and consumers want that. It "sucks" that Apple gave them that option and they went for it, but I don't consider this to be inherently malicious. > Even if at cost the extreme sophistication and complexity of such tools reinforces the point that these devices aren't really built for repair. They're built for eye appeal first and foremost. …these are the tools that Apple uses to repair your phone?
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      Intent is less important when we're burning the world for blue bubbles, cheaper waterproofing, and a few millimeters thinner. If iphones had to be priced with externalities included (via regulation) I suspect they'd get user replaceable batteries shortly there after.
bostonsre 4y ago
I guess I could go either way on this. It seems possible apple is being genuine and they just optimized for a sleek design and repairability wasn't a concern because they didn't need to support at home repairs before. This could just be the first iteration of supporting repairability and maybe they will make design decisions to make it easier in the future. Or.. They could be dragging their feet and they are trying to make it as laborious and tedious as possible to avoid needing to put too much effort into supporting at home repairs. I guess they could also just be trying to open up a new market and sell fancy iPhone repair products.
spookthesunset 4y ago
How can you have a user accessible door to remove the battery while still being at least somewhat thin and water resistant? I’m sure there are ways but I would probably significantly increase the BOM costs. For example some kind of waterproof battery that connects to a waterproof jack. That will you the battery but cracked screens and stuff? Those pretty much have to be a pain in the ass to keep the cost, weight and watertight-ness up to spec.
- ihateolives 4y ago
  It's not rocket science. Most wristwatches are splash proof, many are waterproof and they're still thinner than iPhones. Tight sealing has been figured out long time ago, even for rectangular shapes.
- TaylorAlexander 4y ago
  Well, "somewhat thin" is subjective so that is no real barrier. Water resistant? I would think you make the phone in two halves, and it splits in the middle. This way both halves can be sturdy enough that a few screws and a silicone seal are enough to keep the water out. Maybe two halves is the wrong idea, but you can still make a stiff back shell that engages in a row of clips along the side that are tapered so as it catches it presses against a silicone seal. Then just a few screws to hold it in place. Anyway, Apple has solved a million engineering problems. I bet if they cared as much about user serviceable parts as they do about putting LIDAR in their face scanner, we'd see all kinds of clever solutions. Seriously the idea that Apple, one of the most capable engineering and manufacturing companies to ever have existed, could not elegantly solve this problem is a bit far fetched to me. I think the only reason people cannot conceive of it is that we haven't seen it.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  > How can you have a user accessible door to remove the battery while still being at least somewhat thin and water resistant? Don't know what you mean by "somewhat thin", but as far as I'm concerned, maybe they could ask Samsung. My Galaxy S5 had a removable battery door, removable battery, and was water resistant (I'd use it as a GPS on a motorbike, even under heavy rain). It also had a headphone jack, which also didn't seem to be an issue for its water resistance. It was less than a mm thicker than my iPhone 7 and barely thicker than a 13 mini. Dimensions from Wikipedia: GS7 : 142.4 x 69.6 x 7.9 mm iphone 7 : 138.3 x 67.1 x 7.1 mm iphone 13 mini : 131.5 x 64.2 x 7.65 mm I prefer the iPhone 7 for the overall smaller size, but I think that's a different issue. I never found the GS7 "thick", just "big", because it was too tall and wide and would sometimes be uncomfortable in my jeans pocket (and I'm a guy).
simonh 4y ago
There have been constant complaints that Apple doesn’t make its repair and maintenance equipment and parts available for others to use. Now that they do, it turns out they use extremely high quality professional tools to do near-factory quality work. So fine, here you are, you can get all the exact same stuff Apple uses. You win.
- ddingus 4y ago
  Great! (I agree) Having seen that set of tools, others can and should be cost reducing them and or innovating how to do things without them, or with less expensive gear.
bonestamp2 4y ago
> Apple is so anti-repair they have no provisions for a reasonable at home process. Just because they don't prioritize their designs for at home repair, doesn't mean they're anti-repair. Clearly they're not anti-repair if they're voluntarily making their tooling available for repairs. I can't really blame them for prioritizing design over repairability. At least for now, repairability doesn't sell a lot of phones -- the number of people who want to repair their own phone is so small, and I say that as someone who has repaired a couple iPhones in the past.
pilsetnieks 4y ago
> Obviously newer phones are waterproof and arguably more durable, but Apple has gone so far towards a factory sealed design as to require absurd equipment to do a proper job. I'm not too familiar with the matter but wouldn't other manufacturers' waterproof phones have a similar construction to enable said waterproofness?
seanp2k2 4y ago
Probably wouldn’t be that hard either to waterproof and seal everything, then have waterproof batteries and battery connectors that were splash-resistant with recommended removal + drying for a day if they do get wet.

sokoloff 4y ago

You have a storage bin holding old smartphones with readily replaceable batteries. That suggests to me that readily replaceable batteries isn't anywhere near the entire story in terms of keeping phones out the landfill (or in your case, a storage bin).

salawat 4y ago
You are correct. without datasheets, you have no way to even approach reprogramming a computer system. Those datasheets, schemata, and documentation are some of the closest, most tightly held trade secrets in the tech world. Increasingly, the world has gotten away from "sell thing to owner to own" to "sell hook for revenue extraction from User". part of which has also increasingly been "be the unofficial or unnoticed arm of power by keeping inconvenient things hard to acquire as determined by the parties in power". Say... industrial equipment without backdoors. Until I can load my own firmware/microcode, it ain't mine yet. I'd love to have a cobbled together group of heterogenous computing devices just for the novelty.
- wrycoder 4y ago
  And that’s the reason to continue to grow the FLOSS / Open Hardware ecosystem. You don’t have to program or fix stuff yourself. But you should be able to hire your local shop to do it for you at reasonable expense and to keep your old, but good, stuff running as long as you like. While flip phones are disposable are their price point, that’s not true for hardware like smart phones or beyond. We need better, sustainable solutions.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
TaylorAlexander 4y ago
The lack of user replaceable batteries is one symptom of a larger problem, yes. And the symptom being discussed today.
bsder 4y ago
Part of the issue with old smartphones and batteries is that every battery is a snowflake so eventually nobody is willing to produce the replacement battery anymore. Contrast this to car batteries where the form factor is specified within certain limits. This is, unfortunately, a point where the law probably has to step in and say "battery replacements must be available for 20 years" which would make it unpalatable to be a snowflake anymore. At that point, the suppliers would get together and agree on a "standard" battery form factor.
usrn 4y ago
Smartphone software being pure garbage along with the games Qualcomm and the network operators play make up the rest of the story.

madeofpalk 4y ago

> show just how deep the hole Apple has dug for themselves really is I guess it shows this hole to the public, but Apple's know this the whole time. They scale out in-store iPhone repair to 500 stores around the world where they have low-paid retail workers performing the repairs.

jeffbee 4y ago
And it's a great service, too. You pay $50 and wait a few minutes. You get a new, genuine OEM battery with a warranty that extends the life of your phone indefinitely. The right-to-repair people have just lost contact with reality. This is the way people want it to work. It is a great product experience.
- kllrnohj 4y ago
  Right-to-repair in no way prevents or hampers Apple's ability to offer that service. If people want the current state, they can continue to pay for it. Right to repair offers strictly more options and choice, it doesn't remove anything
  - jeffbee 4y ago
    It removes the ability of the manufacturer to make a phone that is the size and weight people prefer and has the features they want. Billions of people want a waterproof phone and I doubt you could even fill a bus with people who really give a damn whether or not the battery is replaceable in the field.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      For buyers of new devices that may be true. Yet I've sold plenty of phones I had bought second hand (after years of my own use), and those with user swappable batteries are far more likely to be reused without great expense. More so if they also have an SDcard slot to minimize wear on the soldered storage. As phone features plateau we should strive to make them last longer and avoid unnecessarily consuming tons of new material every year. (IIRC a single iphone consumes like 0.5 tons of materials to go from the ground to the pocket.)

js2 4y ago

It's a trade-off. I am someone who repairs my own stuff. I've repaired my fridge, my dishwasher, my oven, my microwave, my garage door openers, my 1998 Jeep Cherokee, and on and on. 99% of people do NOT do this. I've replaced the batteries in multiple first generation iPhone SEs. I'll never replace a battery again in an iPhone, nor do I ever desire too. The phones have become too hard to open, but in return, Apple offers battery replacement for a reasonable charge and a modern iPhone is nearly water proof, more durable, more compact, and with better battery life than ever. For a portable device like a phone, I'm happy with the trade-off, and I think the market shows that most consumers are too. The trade-off for a laptop is less clear to me, but nor is replacing the battery in a Macbook as hard as replacing it in an iPhone. The things that really drive me crazy though are devices that don't need to be sealed that are. Homepods, Sonos speakers, previous generation Apple chargers with hardwired cords, those sorts of things. I just had to order an entire new Vitamix S-series blade base for $75 that I could repair myself if they’d sell me just the rubber seals and a couple bearings — And I probably don’t even need the bearings from them since they look like standard 8mmx22mmx7mm skate wheel bearings, but who knows, maybe theirs are food safe. https://www.vitamix.com/us/en_us/shop/s-series-blade-base https://www.vitamix.com/us/en_us/shop/s-series-blade-base ($75 is probably even a fair price. It’s just the principle of the matter.) Anyway, I feel about this article as wfhordie does. It's not just descriptive of the process, which would be fine. It's filled with snark, and doesn't acknowledge the trade-offs in manufacturing a more easy to repair device. Engineering is always trafe-offs. Shame on The Verge.

austinkhale 4y ago
Playing devil’s advocate for just a second, I really appreciate that my Homepod & Sonos are sealed. It allows for longer device longevity when placed in high humidity environments (bathrooms, tropical areas, etc.). Definitely a trade-off game with all hardware devices & Apple (and others) are not blameless when it comes to engineering things to be purposefully difficult. However, I think we often underestimate the sheer number of environmental constraints an international hardware retailer with near universal demographic appeal has to account for in designs. Agree on everything else. The article gets a thumbs down.
gernb 4y ago

arcticbull 4y ago

They don't force you into the tools, the deposit or anything else - they offer you parts at the same prices they offer to third-party service providers and Apple stores. They even offer you credit for returning the old parts. If have your own iFixit kit, the only thing you're on the hook for is parts cost. Access to the tools for what is likely at-cost shipping prices seems like an above-and-beyond thing to me that the right to repair folks weren't even asking for.

paulryanrogers 4y ago
Considering that batteries still only last about a day and Apple led this shift to non-user-swappable batteries they still deserve some blame for landfill culture. Most of their efforts around repair appear to be the minimum anyone motivated by new sales would do once faced with looming regulation. Even if at cost the extreme sophistication and complexity of such tools reinforces the point that these devices aren't really built for repair. They're built for eye appeal first and foremost.
- saagarjha 4y ago
  > Considering that batteries still only last about a day and Apple led this shift to non-user-swappable batteries they still deserve some blame for landfill culture. Sure, but it seems like this makes phones thinner and lighter and consumers want that. It "sucks" that Apple gave them that option and they went for it, but I don't consider this to be inherently malicious. > Even if at cost the extreme sophistication and complexity of such tools reinforces the point that these devices aren't really built for repair. They're built for eye appeal first and foremost. …these are the tools that Apple uses to repair your phone?
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    Intent is less important when we're burning the world for blue bubbles, cheaper waterproofing, and a few millimeters thinner. If iphones had to be priced with externalities included (via regulation) I suspect they'd get user replaceable batteries shortly there after.

bostonsre 4y ago

I guess I could go either way on this. It seems possible apple is being genuine and they just optimized for a sleek design and repairability wasn't a concern because they didn't need to support at home repairs before. This could just be the first iteration of supporting repairability and maybe they will make design decisions to make it easier in the future. Or.. They could be dragging their feet and they are trying to make it as laborious and tedious as possible to avoid needing to put too much effort into supporting at home repairs. I guess they could also just be trying to open up a new market and sell fancy iPhone repair products.

spookthesunset 4y ago

How can you have a user accessible door to remove the battery while still being at least somewhat thin and water resistant? I’m sure there are ways but I would probably significantly increase the BOM costs. For example some kind of waterproof battery that connects to a waterproof jack. That will you the battery but cracked screens and stuff? Those pretty much have to be a pain in the ass to keep the cost, weight and watertight-ness up to spec.

ihateolives 4y ago
It's not rocket science. Most wristwatches are splash proof, many are waterproof and they're still thinner than iPhones. Tight sealing has been figured out long time ago, even for rectangular shapes.
TaylorAlexander 4y ago
Well, "somewhat thin" is subjective so that is no real barrier. Water resistant? I would think you make the phone in two halves, and it splits in the middle. This way both halves can be sturdy enough that a few screws and a silicone seal are enough to keep the water out. Maybe two halves is the wrong idea, but you can still make a stiff back shell that engages in a row of clips along the side that are tapered so as it catches it presses against a silicone seal. Then just a few screws to hold it in place. Anyway, Apple has solved a million engineering problems. I bet if they cared as much about user serviceable parts as they do about putting LIDAR in their face scanner, we'd see all kinds of clever solutions. Seriously the idea that Apple, one of the most capable engineering and manufacturing companies to ever have existed, could not elegantly solve this problem is a bit far fetched to me. I think the only reason people cannot conceive of it is that we haven't seen it.
vladvasiliu 4y ago
> How can you have a user accessible door to remove the battery while still being at least somewhat thin and water resistant? Don't know what you mean by "somewhat thin", but as far as I'm concerned, maybe they could ask Samsung. My Galaxy S5 had a removable battery door, removable battery, and was water resistant (I'd use it as a GPS on a motorbike, even under heavy rain). It also had a headphone jack, which also didn't seem to be an issue for its water resistance. It was less than a mm thicker than my iPhone 7 and barely thicker than a 13 mini. Dimensions from Wikipedia: GS7 : 142.4 x 69.6 x 7.9 mm iphone 7 : 138.3 x 67.1 x 7.1 mm iphone 13 mini : 131.5 x 64.2 x 7.65 mm I prefer the iPhone 7 for the overall smaller size, but I think that's a different issue. I never found the GS7 "thick", just "big", because it was too tall and wide and would sometimes be uncomfortable in my jeans pocket (and I'm a guy).

simonh 4y ago

There have been constant complaints that Apple doesn’t make its repair and maintenance equipment and parts available for others to use. Now that they do, it turns out they use extremely high quality professional tools to do near-factory quality work. So fine, here you are, you can get all the exact same stuff Apple uses. You win.

ddingus 4y ago
Great! (I agree) Having seen that set of tools, others can and should be cost reducing them and or innovating how to do things without them, or with less expensive gear.

bonestamp2 4y ago

> Apple is so anti-repair they have no provisions for a reasonable at home process. Just because they don't prioritize their designs for at home repair, doesn't mean they're anti-repair. Clearly they're not anti-repair if they're voluntarily making their tooling available for repairs. I can't really blame them for prioritizing design over repairability. At least for now, repairability doesn't sell a lot of phones -- the number of people who want to repair their own phone is so small, and I say that as someone who has repaired a couple iPhones in the past.

pilsetnieks 4y ago

> Obviously newer phones are waterproof and arguably more durable, but Apple has gone so far towards a factory sealed design as to require absurd equipment to do a proper job. I'm not too familiar with the matter but wouldn't other manufacturers' waterproof phones have a similar construction to enable said waterproofness?

seanp2k2 4y ago

Probably wouldn’t be that hard either to waterproof and seal everything, then have waterproof batteries and battery connectors that were splash-resistant with recommended removal + drying for a day if they do get wet.