7 ms·

Nice, I think this is great. Say what you will about Canonical but they've got the market share and the cajones to switch up defaults like this (Wayland, PipeWi

by branon 4y ago

Nice, I think this is great. Say what you will about Canonical but they've got the market share and the cajones to switch up defaults like this (Wayland, PipeWire) which will ultimately help drive forward innovation and adoption.

Mikeb85 4y ago
Red Hat/Fedora were the ones to develop and push both Wayland and Pipewire, and Fedora was the first distro to make both default. Ubuntu is merely following their lead.
- dralley 4y ago
  Arch switched months ago, as well.
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    Ah nice. Not gonna lie, Arch isn't really on my radar. I just know Wayland/Pipewire (among other things) were developed by Red Hat employees.
    - aaomidi 4y ago
      I've been recommending endeavourOS to people recently. Arch makes a lot of people go "wow" when they see how nice the AUR is.
      - eternityforest 4y ago
        I tried Manjaro in a VM and was pretty disappointed by AUR. The selection is only a little ahead of Debian's official core packages. Debian 11 and derivatives really have a lot. I also don't like how you have to compile your own AUR frontend. You would think that would be pre-included, since it seems to be one of the star attractions of Arch. I wasn't a fan of how long it takes to compile things. I also remember having to figure out dependencies manually, it doesn't just do it all for you like apt/dpkg. I don't fully trust it any more than random AppImages from GitHub releases, to be honest, since I've heard there has been malware in the past, and compiling yourself gives zero protection. Unless you are going to read through tens of thousands to millions of lines of code, you're still just trusting whoever put the package up there, and hoping you would have heard about it if there was a virus. I suspect not nearly as many people go around randomly reviewing code as some might like to think. It does work, and I can see the value if you want to use things that for whatever reason aren't in Debian. I actually kind of like the curation effect that Debian has though. If it's in the repos, it gives you a clue about what is popular enough that someone bothered maintaining it. If it's not in Debian and Fedora, it's probably more experimental than I'd like it to be.
  - marcthe12 4y ago
    Arch never switched since doesn't enforce the default sound server. You can choose any unless dependencies force use to use one. The official arch installer even prompts the user to chose between pipewire and pulse on install.
    - sam_lowry_ 4y ago
      I use ALSA with dmix plugin on ArchLinux and can not be happier. What's the use of a sound server for 99.99% of us?
      - tadfisher 4y ago
        Per-application volume, Bluetooth device support with automatic profile switching, headphone jack detection, and probably 5 other things I use daily but don't know about.
        nsajko 4y ago
        > Per-application volume Why would I want per-app volume? Pretty sure all relevant apps have a setting for that. > headphone jack detection What do you mean by this? My headphone jack works just fine with just ALSA and no configuration. > probably 5 other things I use daily but don't know about Doubt.
        v-yadli 4y ago
        Different effect chains for different profiles -- plugged in = transparent signal path; crappy laptop speaker = booster fx.
      - mlom 4y ago
        alsa alone works fine for me as well… a sound server would make sense to me if i did a lot of audio processing using a bunch of different applications, but how many people really do that anyway as opposed to just working in some overengineered DAW?
      - viraptor 4y ago
        Bluetooth profiles. Routing specific applications to their own outputs.
- raverbashing 4y ago
  Interesting. Wasn't Pulseaudio from their favourite "move fast and break things" developer? Did they realize they needed a better solution? (though Pipewire also deals with video) (the point here is basically: why couldn't they fix pulseaudio?)
  - dralley 4y ago
    Pipewire solves a bunch of problems at once * low latency / pro audio * secure video streaming and desktop capture under Wayland * unification of Jack and PulseAudio ecosystems (Pipewire implements both APIs)
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    > Really? Wasn't Pulseaudio from their favourite "move fast and break things" developer? Probably. But the Pipewire developer is at Red Hat, and Fedora has it as default.
    - krzyk 4y ago
      Lennart Poettering is also at RedHat.
      - Mikeb85 4y ago
        Gotcha. I assume Poettering probably working mostly on systemd no? That's what I associate him with anyway.
        krzyk 4y ago
        Not sure, he did also pulseaudio (which is funny because I'm not a fun of either of his two most known works, systemd being the top offender for me) so he might touch something in piperwire also.
  - Beltalowda 4y ago
    Pipewire started as "Pulseaudio, but for video"; later audio features were also added. It still uses the Pulseaudio and JACK APIs and should be a "drop-in" compatible replacement for both. I don't think RedHat or anyone ever said that Pulseaudio is perfect or covers all use cases.
LambdaComplex 4y ago
> which will ultimately help drive forward innovation and adoption Because that worked out so well for Mir and Upstart, right?

by branon 4y ago

Mikeb85 4y ago

Red Hat/Fedora were the ones to develop and push both Wayland and Pipewire, and Fedora was the first distro to make both default. Ubuntu is merely following their lead.

dralley 4y ago
Arch switched months ago, as well.
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  Ah nice. Not gonna lie, Arch isn't really on my radar. I just know Wayland/Pipewire (among other things) were developed by Red Hat employees.
  - aaomidi 4y ago
    I've been recommending endeavourOS to people recently. Arch makes a lot of people go "wow" when they see how nice the AUR is.
    - eternityforest 4y ago
      I tried Manjaro in a VM and was pretty disappointed by AUR. The selection is only a little ahead of Debian's official core packages. Debian 11 and derivatives really have a lot. I also don't like how you have to compile your own AUR frontend. You would think that would be pre-included, since it seems to be one of the star attractions of Arch. I wasn't a fan of how long it takes to compile things. I also remember having to figure out dependencies manually, it doesn't just do it all for you like apt/dpkg. I don't fully trust it any more than random AppImages from GitHub releases, to be honest, since I've heard there has been malware in the past, and compiling yourself gives zero protection. Unless you are going to read through tens of thousands to millions of lines of code, you're still just trusting whoever put the package up there, and hoping you would have heard about it if there was a virus. I suspect not nearly as many people go around randomly reviewing code as some might like to think. It does work, and I can see the value if you want to use things that for whatever reason aren't in Debian. I actually kind of like the curation effect that Debian has though. If it's in the repos, it gives you a clue about what is popular enough that someone bothered maintaining it. If it's not in Debian and Fedora, it's probably more experimental than I'd like it to be.
- marcthe12 4y ago
  Arch never switched since doesn't enforce the default sound server. You can choose any unless dependencies force use to use one. The official arch installer even prompts the user to chose between pipewire and pulse on install.
  - sam_lowry_ 4y ago
    I use ALSA with dmix plugin on ArchLinux and can not be happier. What's the use of a sound server for 99.99% of us?
    - tadfisher 4y ago
      Per-application volume, Bluetooth device support with automatic profile switching, headphone jack detection, and probably 5 other things I use daily but don't know about.
      - nsajko 4y ago
        > Per-application volume Why would I want per-app volume? Pretty sure all relevant apps have a setting for that. > headphone jack detection What do you mean by this? My headphone jack works just fine with just ALSA and no configuration. > probably 5 other things I use daily but don't know about Doubt.
      - v-yadli 4y ago
        Different effect chains for different profiles -- plugged in = transparent signal path; crappy laptop speaker = booster fx.
    - mlom 4y ago
      alsa alone works fine for me as well… a sound server would make sense to me if i did a lot of audio processing using a bunch of different applications, but how many people really do that anyway as opposed to just working in some overengineered DAW?
    - viraptor 4y ago
      Bluetooth profiles. Routing specific applications to their own outputs.
raverbashing 4y ago
Interesting. Wasn't Pulseaudio from their favourite "move fast and break things" developer? Did they realize they needed a better solution? (though Pipewire also deals with video) (the point here is basically: why couldn't they fix pulseaudio?)
- dralley 4y ago
  Pipewire solves a bunch of problems at once * low latency / pro audio * secure video streaming and desktop capture under Wayland * unification of Jack and PulseAudio ecosystems (Pipewire implements both APIs)
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  > Really? Wasn't Pulseaudio from their favourite "move fast and break things" developer? Probably. But the Pipewire developer is at Red Hat, and Fedora has it as default.
  - krzyk 4y ago
    Lennart Poettering is also at RedHat.
    - Mikeb85 4y ago
      Gotcha. I assume Poettering probably working mostly on systemd no? That's what I associate him with anyway.
      - krzyk 4y ago
        Not sure, he did also pulseaudio (which is funny because I'm not a fun of either of his two most known works, systemd being the top offender for me) so he might touch something in piperwire also.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  Pipewire started as "Pulseaudio, but for video"; later audio features were also added. It still uses the Pulseaudio and JACK APIs and should be a "drop-in" compatible replacement for both. I don't think RedHat or anyone ever said that Pulseaudio is perfect or covers all use cases.

LambdaComplex 4y ago

> which will ultimately help drive forward innovation and adoption Because that worked out so well for Mir and Upstart, right?