4 ms·

These ads show not only how much we progressed in terms of technology but also as being a society with less prejudice and misogyny. Take a look at the role of w

These ads show not only how much we progressed in terms of technology but also as being a society with less prejudice and misogyny. Take a look at the role of women on those photos. Disgusting!

ajross 4y ago
That's what I find striking too. Likewise there's precisely one photo in the entire collection showing a non-white face (and it's a school room of kids, not "customers"). I remember reading these ads; it wasn't that long ago at all.
- felix318 4y ago
  Conversely people looking at current adverts 50 years from now will wonder “where did all the white people go?” (I’m not white and I don’t care, it’s just an observation)
  - egypturnash 4y ago
    I dunno, they’re still there, they’re just not the only people?
    - teakettle42 4y ago
      I visited an indoor mall recently, in an area with some of the whitest demographics in the nation, but also (since I know the stereotypes about fat Americans) the healthiest. Almost without exception, the models depicted in the store window ads were obese women of color. Even for athletic wear. Whatever weird fetishism the marketing world has going on now, it’s absolutely not representative relative to local demographics, nor nation-wide demographics.
      - ajross 4y ago
        > Almost without exception, the models depicted in the store window ads were obese women of color. Obviously I can't speak to whatever local ads you saw, but I don't believe the "almost without exception" for an instant. Here's the front page of Forever 21, sort of a reasonable approximation to an "indoor mall" environment: https://www.forever21.com/ https://www.forever21.com/ Out of 55 models with faces that I see, 27 are white (or at least plausibly white-presenting, obviously there's some ambiguity here as there always is with any kind of ethnic definition). So... 50% almost exactly. A bit lower than the population at large (though probably much closer to the younger/urban target market). Hardly a lack of representation, which is what you claim to be seeing. But my guess is that absent these numbers, you'd look at that page and think "almost without exception..." right?
        teakettle42 4y ago
        No, that looks relatively representative to me, modulo minor variance, and even the “plus sized” models aren’t on the extreme end of obesity. I’m even impressed that there’s asian representation; they’re generally grossly under-represented. (Also, I feel like I’ve been trolled into looking at Forever 21’s website). You don’t have to believe me, but I’m also not going to go through the mall recording exactly what percentage of stores featured extremely obese women of color as their front-and-center spokesmodel.
        b65e8bee43c2ed0 4y ago
        >Here's the front page of Forever 21, sort of a reasonable approximation to an "indoor mall" environment: https://www.forever21.com/ https://www.forever21.com/ sort of, but not quite even in my 99% indigenous European country, I'm seeing the same trend with the fancy brand ads in our malls - 50/50 or so with women models, 90% with men I do realize of course the reason is that nobody bothers localizing these ads for our tiny market, but still, these ads don't reflect the demographics of the largest market either it doesn't bother me though. if anything, not being the target demographic for 500$ shoes made by SEA child slaves is a badge of honor
  - ajross 4y ago
    The US non-hispanic white population is about 60%. I'd be absolutely stunned if there was a study somewhere showing white representation in a reasonably defined advertising market under that number. Is that really a serious opinion you've formed? I have to wonder where it came from?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
dxhdr 4y ago
Women showing their kids new tech, truly disgusting. I was actually surprised there were only two photos of "pinup" type girls... and then shortly later, a photo of a naked dude! And then a businesswoman "walking into the light" carrying a PC! I guess I was expecting much worse.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  We are afraid of heterosexual family units and the female body now.
- marcodiego 4y ago
  Yes, there are those exceptions. In most cases the woman is shown as someone whose only function is to take care of the kids while the man is the one with the job to take care of the family; the first picture shows exactly that. The photo of the naked dude is not exploiting his appearance. The photo of the business woman may be interpreted as something like "even a woman can carry it."
lstodd 4y ago
Too bad they missed this one https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e6/37/b1/e637b1345d6f13bd14c6400fbdcb75a1.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e6/37/b1/e637b1345d6f13bd14c6...
pcrh 4y ago
And a naked man as well!
mgdlbp 4y ago
What, then, of these IBM commercials? "PS/2 It!" (1989) https://archive.org/details/ibmpersonalsystem2ps2computercommercial1989yuhtv9mcsra https://archive.org/details/ibmpersonalsystem2ps2computercom... "We're Your Type" (1984/6?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce3NYMG_qoA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce3NYMG_qoA "The IBM Retail Solution" (1983) https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC229_01 https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC229_01 I mean, I guess that's the entire point of the second one's message, but IBM seems to have been pretty consistent with the diversity around then. -- Edit: The collection behind that last one (https://digital.hagley.org/2018222 https://digital.hagley.org/2018222) is full of short documentaries about employment that are similarly interesting, e.g.: "Understanding Norms:" (1970s) https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC53 https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC53 "Office Practice : Business Manners and Customs" (1972 ) https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC164 https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC164 "People to People" (1974) https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC169 https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC169 "Jobs in the World of Work : A Good Place To Be" (1969) https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC175 https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC175
fractallyte 4y ago
And judging by the downvotes you've received, we still have a long way to go... Look at the way women are portrayed in the majority of these ads: onlookers, sidelined, demure; a sidekick (or worse) for their more dynamic men. No wonder there are so few women in tech, and shame on all of you for belittling an insightful and important comment.

These ads show not only how much we progressed in terms of technology but also as being a society with less prejudice and misogyny. Take a look at the role of women on those photos. Disgusting!

ajross 4y ago

That's what I find striking too. Likewise there's precisely one photo in the entire collection showing a non-white face (and it's a school room of kids, not "customers"). I remember reading these ads; it wasn't that long ago at all.

felix318 4y ago
Conversely people looking at current adverts 50 years from now will wonder “where did all the white people go?” (I’m not white and I don’t care, it’s just an observation)
- egypturnash 4y ago
  I dunno, they’re still there, they’re just not the only people?
  - teakettle42 4y ago
    I visited an indoor mall recently, in an area with some of the whitest demographics in the nation, but also (since I know the stereotypes about fat Americans) the healthiest. Almost without exception, the models depicted in the store window ads were obese women of color. Even for athletic wear. Whatever weird fetishism the marketing world has going on now, it’s absolutely not representative relative to local demographics, nor nation-wide demographics.
    - ajross 4y ago
      > Almost without exception, the models depicted in the store window ads were obese women of color. Obviously I can't speak to whatever local ads you saw, but I don't believe the "almost without exception" for an instant. Here's the front page of Forever 21, sort of a reasonable approximation to an "indoor mall" environment: https://www.forever21.com/ https://www.forever21.com/ Out of 55 models with faces that I see, 27 are white (or at least plausibly white-presenting, obviously there's some ambiguity here as there always is with any kind of ethnic definition). So... 50% almost exactly. A bit lower than the population at large (though probably much closer to the younger/urban target market). Hardly a lack of representation, which is what you claim to be seeing. But my guess is that absent these numbers, you'd look at that page and think "almost without exception..." right?
      - teakettle42 4y ago
        No, that looks relatively representative to me, modulo minor variance, and even the “plus sized” models aren’t on the extreme end of obesity. I’m even impressed that there’s asian representation; they’re generally grossly under-represented. (Also, I feel like I’ve been trolled into looking at Forever 21’s website). You don’t have to believe me, but I’m also not going to go through the mall recording exactly what percentage of stores featured extremely obese women of color as their front-and-center spokesmodel.
      - b65e8bee43c2ed0 4y ago
        >Here's the front page of Forever 21, sort of a reasonable approximation to an "indoor mall" environment: https://www.forever21.com/ https://www.forever21.com/ sort of, but not quite even in my 99% indigenous European country, I'm seeing the same trend with the fancy brand ads in our malls - 50/50 or so with women models, 90% with men I do realize of course the reason is that nobody bothers localizing these ads for our tiny market, but still, these ads don't reflect the demographics of the largest market either it doesn't bother me though. if anything, not being the target demographic for 500$ shoes made by SEA child slaves is a badge of honor
- ajross 4y ago
  The US non-hispanic white population is about 60%. I'd be absolutely stunned if there was a study somewhere showing white representation in a reasonably defined advertising market under that number. Is that really a serious opinion you've formed? I have to wonder where it came from?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

dxhdr 4y ago

Women showing their kids new tech, truly disgusting. I was actually surprised there were only two photos of "pinup" type girls... and then shortly later, a photo of a naked dude! And then a businesswoman "walking into the light" carrying a PC! I guess I was expecting much worse.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
We are afraid of heterosexual family units and the female body now.
marcodiego 4y ago
Yes, there are those exceptions. In most cases the woman is shown as someone whose only function is to take care of the kids while the man is the one with the job to take care of the family; the first picture shows exactly that. The photo of the naked dude is not exploiting his appearance. The photo of the business woman may be interpreted as something like "even a woman can carry it."

lstodd 4y ago

Too bad they missed this one https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e6/37/b1/e637b1345d6f13bd14c6400fbdcb75a1.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e6/37/b1/e637b1345d6f13bd14c6...

pcrh 4y ago

And a naked man as well!

mgdlbp 4y ago

What, then, of these IBM commercials? "PS/2 It!" (1989) https://archive.org/details/ibmpersonalsystem2ps2computercommercial1989yuhtv9mcsra https://archive.org/details/ibmpersonalsystem2ps2computercom... "We're Your Type" (1984/6?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce3NYMG_qoA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce3NYMG_qoA "The IBM Retail Solution" (1983) https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC229_01 https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC229_01 I mean, I guess that's the entire point of the second one's message, but IBM seems to have been pretty consistent with the diversity around then. -- Edit: The collection behind that last one (https://digital.hagley.org/2018222 https://digital.hagley.org/2018222) is full of short documentaries about employment that are similarly interesting, e.g.: "Understanding Norms:" (1970s) https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC53 https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC53 "Office Practice : Business Manners and Customs" (1972 ) https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC164 https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC164 "People to People" (1974) https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC169 https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC169 "Jobs in the World of Work : A Good Place To Be" (1969) https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC175 https://digital.hagley.org/FILM_2018222_FC175

fractallyte 4y ago

And judging by the downvotes you've received, we still have a long way to go... Look at the way women are portrayed in the majority of these ads: onlookers, sidelined, demure; a sidekick (or worse) for their more dynamic men. No wonder there are so few women in tech, and shame on all of you for belittling an insightful and important comment.