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Whoa whoa hold on. You can pay Apple to replace your battery. That’s been true for years. I’ve done it with multiple phones. We just had Apple replace the batte

Whoa whoa hold on. You can pay Apple to replace your battery. That’s been true for years. I’ve done it with multiple phones. We just had Apple replace the battery in my wife’s iPhone SE (the original version) and it’s working great. The metaphorical tires are not welded on; you can keep an old phone going with a new battery. But just like tires, if you insist on doing the work yourself, you’re going to need some special equipment.

shkkmo 4y ago
> The metaphorical tires are not welded on; you can keep an old phone going with a new battery. The metaphorical tires are DRM'd on by a company that has been actively trying to prevent third party repair shops from being able to work on your car. The doubt of Apple's intentions here is not happening in a vacuum, but against their consistent and ongoing efforts to make self-repair unnecessarily difficult.
- Bud 4y ago
  There is absolutely no evidence about Apple's "intentions" or "efforts" here, despite constant hectoring and bad-faith, zero-evidence arguments from people like you. "Unnecessarily" difficult? Whatever. What you really mean is that Apple has been optimizing for durability, water-resistance, and smaller size, and people like you don't like those choices, so you are having a tantrum. Those choices, of necessity, mean that repairs are going to be a bit of a pain.
- snowwrestler 4y ago
  When we’re talking about “right to repair,” we need to distinguish between: a) the use of DRM to prevent repairs b) the physical challenge of working on complex things c) planned obsolescence via consumables The big problem with Apple and many companies is a), and I support efforts to make that illegal. Problem b) is unavoidable for complex things. And there are design trade-offs that deliver benefits for costs, for example thin waterproof smartphones have hard-to-replace batteries. I’m not a fan of trying to use the law to force one set of design decisions on everyone. Problem c) is an issue for some Apple products like EarPods. But not for iPhones, as I point out above.
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    Problem B may not be completely unavoidable but it also isn't a valid excuse for deliberately anti-repair design choices. Some things are indeed tradeoffs in terma s of repairabilty vs. features or costs, but some design decisions have little to no effect on features / cost but a large effect on repairability or durabilty. Now, you can't always legally separate which tradeoffs are which, but I do think there is real value to finding ways to incentivize companies that make durable, repairable products. Those products produce a lot of value for society but manufactures can have a hard time recouping much of that value in the sale price, leading to bad incentives.
- shuckles 4y ago
  It honestly seems perfectly reasonable to authenticate a battery which is among the most dangerous component of a device I regularly hold in my hand and up to my head. A fully charged iPhone battery probably has enough energy to blow body parts off.
frosted-flakes 4y ago
You absolutely do not need any special equipment to change a wheel. In fact, the only equipment you need comes with the car, a jack and a wrench, and a spare wheel (or at least they used to). Sure, you need to buy the tires, but you also need to buy the battery.
- snowwrestler 4y ago
  Which one inflates the new tires, the jack or the wrench?
  - frosted-flakes 4y ago
    The tire shop who mounted the tires on the wheels, or a simple bike pump.
    - mynameisvlad 4y ago
      But I thought changing the wheels was a simple process you could do at home with the tools provided with the car? A bike pump and a tire shop aren't provided with the car. Hell, most don't come with jacks or a wrench either. Some won't even include a spare tire/wheel nowadays.
    - snowwrestler 4y ago
      Repairs can be pretty easy when you pay someone else in a shop to do the hard part for you. In my case, replacing my iPhone battery required no tools at all after I paid the Apple shop to mount the new battery in the phone.
      - Sirened 4y ago
        money can be exchanged for goods and services?? you tell me this now??
- shuckles 4y ago
  The tool to mount a tire onto a wheel costs between $50 and $2500 dollars and is very large. The alternative - a spare wheel - is a kludge! Cars carry around an entire tire and wheel all the time in a special compartment because you can't expect people to mount tires themselves. Or modern cars spec run flat tires which come with a host of their own tradeoffs.
MereInterest 4y ago
> But just like tires, if you insist on doing the work yourself, you’re going to need some special equipment. That is not a constant of the universe, and is entirely dependent on the design. A long time ago, I had a Palm Treo 650. The removable back cover didn't require any tools to remove, after which the battery could be popped out. I could carry spare batteries with me and swap them out as needed. Does this change the design constraints? Yes. But pretending that it's outright impossible ignores the decisions that were made during design.
- snowwrestler 4y ago
  I did not claim it’s a constant of the universe or outright impossible. This thread is about working on iPhones.
- jeffbee 4y ago
  And if you dropped a Treo the battery cover stood a 100% chance of popping off and the battery would land 100 meters away in a bush or down a sewer grate. Terrible misfeature.
  - bombela 4y ago
    but the screen wasn't cracked though...
deschutes 4y ago
Personally I've needed lots of batteries replaced and lost 1 phone to water damage. It's not at all clear to me that hermetic phone designs are the right tradeoff from a utilitarian perspective. On the other hand, if utilitarian phones sold better somebody would be making them. Tires have obvious engineering constraints that presumably led to the current approach. Maybe a bit of path dependence as well. It's completely incomparable.
gorbachev 4y ago
If car manufacturers changed the design of their cars so that you no longer could change them with just a lug wrench and jack, I'm pretty sure a lot of people would complain. This is what happened with cell phones.

shkkmo 4y ago

> The metaphorical tires are not welded on; you can keep an old phone going with a new battery. The metaphorical tires are DRM'd on by a company that has been actively trying to prevent third party repair shops from being able to work on your car. The doubt of Apple's intentions here is not happening in a vacuum, but against their consistent and ongoing efforts to make self-repair unnecessarily difficult.

Bud 4y ago
There is absolutely no evidence about Apple's "intentions" or "efforts" here, despite constant hectoring and bad-faith, zero-evidence arguments from people like you. "Unnecessarily" difficult? Whatever. What you really mean is that Apple has been optimizing for durability, water-resistance, and smaller size, and people like you don't like those choices, so you are having a tantrum. Those choices, of necessity, mean that repairs are going to be a bit of a pain.
snowwrestler 4y ago
When we’re talking about “right to repair,” we need to distinguish between: a) the use of DRM to prevent repairs b) the physical challenge of working on complex things c) planned obsolescence via consumables The big problem with Apple and many companies is a), and I support efforts to make that illegal. Problem b) is unavoidable for complex things. And there are design trade-offs that deliver benefits for costs, for example thin waterproof smartphones have hard-to-replace batteries. I’m not a fan of trying to use the law to force one set of design decisions on everyone. Problem c) is an issue for some Apple products like EarPods. But not for iPhones, as I point out above.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  Problem B may not be completely unavoidable but it also isn't a valid excuse for deliberately anti-repair design choices. Some things are indeed tradeoffs in terma s of repairabilty vs. features or costs, but some design decisions have little to no effect on features / cost but a large effect on repairability or durabilty. Now, you can't always legally separate which tradeoffs are which, but I do think there is real value to finding ways to incentivize companies that make durable, repairable products. Those products produce a lot of value for society but manufactures can have a hard time recouping much of that value in the sale price, leading to bad incentives.
shuckles 4y ago
It honestly seems perfectly reasonable to authenticate a battery which is among the most dangerous component of a device I regularly hold in my hand and up to my head. A fully charged iPhone battery probably has enough energy to blow body parts off.

frosted-flakes 4y ago

You absolutely do not need any special equipment to change a wheel. In fact, the only equipment you need comes with the car, a jack and a wrench, and a spare wheel (or at least they used to). Sure, you need to buy the tires, but you also need to buy the battery.

snowwrestler 4y ago
Which one inflates the new tires, the jack or the wrench?
- frosted-flakes 4y ago
  The tire shop who mounted the tires on the wheels, or a simple bike pump.
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    But I thought changing the wheels was a simple process you could do at home with the tools provided with the car? A bike pump and a tire shop aren't provided with the car. Hell, most don't come with jacks or a wrench either. Some won't even include a spare tire/wheel nowadays.
  - snowwrestler 4y ago
    Repairs can be pretty easy when you pay someone else in a shop to do the hard part for you. In my case, replacing my iPhone battery required no tools at all after I paid the Apple shop to mount the new battery in the phone.
    - Sirened 4y ago
      money can be exchanged for goods and services?? you tell me this now??
shuckles 4y ago
The tool to mount a tire onto a wheel costs between $50 and $2500 dollars and is very large. The alternative - a spare wheel - is a kludge! Cars carry around an entire tire and wheel all the time in a special compartment because you can't expect people to mount tires themselves. Or modern cars spec run flat tires which come with a host of their own tradeoffs.

MereInterest 4y ago

> But just like tires, if you insist on doing the work yourself, you’re going to need some special equipment. That is not a constant of the universe, and is entirely dependent on the design. A long time ago, I had a Palm Treo 650. The removable back cover didn't require any tools to remove, after which the battery could be popped out. I could carry spare batteries with me and swap them out as needed. Does this change the design constraints? Yes. But pretending that it's outright impossible ignores the decisions that were made during design.

snowwrestler 4y ago
I did not claim it’s a constant of the universe or outright impossible. This thread is about working on iPhones.
jeffbee 4y ago
And if you dropped a Treo the battery cover stood a 100% chance of popping off and the battery would land 100 meters away in a bush or down a sewer grate. Terrible misfeature.
- bombela 4y ago
  but the screen wasn't cracked though...

deschutes 4y ago

Personally I've needed lots of batteries replaced and lost 1 phone to water damage. It's not at all clear to me that hermetic phone designs are the right tradeoff from a utilitarian perspective. On the other hand, if utilitarian phones sold better somebody would be making them. Tires have obvious engineering constraints that presumably led to the current approach. Maybe a bit of path dependence as well. It's completely incomparable.

gorbachev 4y ago

If car manufacturers changed the design of their cars so that you no longer could change them with just a lug wrench and jack, I'm pretty sure a lot of people would complain. This is what happened with cell phones.