3 ms·

I want to counter the prevailing negativity in this thread. I admire the pragmatism of this project. The developers are clearly willing to work hard to achieve

I want to counter the prevailing negativity in this thread. I admire the pragmatism of this project. The developers are clearly willing to work hard to achieve what they value, such as producing a single self-contained executable on Windows. But they're also unafraid to take pragmatic shortcuts where they feel that it's OK to do so. I wonder if the fact that the original author comes from the largest non-English-speaking population in the world [1], a population large enough to have its own distinct software development culture, is relevant. I'm guessing that they don't routinely participate in our English-speaking software development communities. If that's so, then they're not exposed to our norms or the constant negativity of our online discourse. Perhaps that's liberating. Perhaps we need more independent cultures, doing their own thing with no regard for what we think. In any case, for me, software developed in China, such as this project and Zoom (particularly the Windows client), provides an interesting peek into what Jimmy Maher called a mirror world [2]. It may trigger our natural discomfort with foreignness, but some of the differences from the typical American commercial software culture, such as a continued willingness to develop bloat-free native Windows apps, are refreshing. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31457771 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31457771 [2]: https://www.filfre.net/2017/06/tales-of-the-mirror-world-part-1-calculators-and-cybernetics/ https://www.filfre.net/2017/06/tales-of-the-mirror-world-par... Edit: If anyone thinks what I said is offensive, please let me know, either publicly or privately. I tried to approach a delicate topic without offending, but I'm not sure if I succeeded.

smarx007 4y ago
Poor translation maybe too? See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31456645 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31456645, "with no concerns about security" sounds quite different from "don't have to worry about security".
tikimcfee 4y ago
If I may add a little to this: I am a native English speaker living in the USA. I constantly feel belittled, undermined, and shunned by the technically literate - especially the hyper technically literate - because of the exact negativity you’re talking about. I can only imagine the level of shock someone who hasn’t built up calluses to the mentality would feel. The negativity is most often this kind of discourse. How gizmo x wont possibly fly because of some rules and general ideas, and how this person’s other gizmo is really the bar to meet, and everything else is not worth their time. I cannot impart to you how terrible I felt for months thinking that I was such a bad engineer that I couldn’t stand up a simple web server on a droplet. I felt like “it’s just so easy and obvious” and I gave up multiple times. This may be crusty software by some people’s standards, but I challenge those same people to put down their high projects, spend 10 minutes writing an issue, or even a weekend with a PR, and dropping this whole schtick of “lol look at the bad developers doing bad things.” This comes off as damning and condemning, and it is by intent, but it’s also a cry for help. If you are technically literate enough to identify issues in something technical.. be the person that shares that understanding freely, instead of holding it like a bar of achievement.
iforgotpassword 4y ago
Even though this might add more negativity, when it comes to commercial or at least closed source software, I can attest that "China is worse". I don't think that transfers over to their open source community though. For one thing, one of the reasons it exists is because those people are fed up with the practices of the commercial players in China. Plus, even though there is the language barrier, they are still exposed to the Western open source community, so at least some of our views and practices might have made it over. I think the "trample the users gdm config" issue for example might be a small influence from the Chinese proprietary software world. A quick and dirty fix. At least there was some message in this case. Usually, proprietary Chinese software doesn't even ask. There was some wild stuff going on in the XP days.
traceroute66 4y ago
> It may trigger our natural discomfort with foreignness, but some of the differences from the typical American commercial software culture I have to say, this phrase just struck me as pure arrogant xenophobia. Like most people on here, I'm sure I can safely speak for the majority when I say there is plenty of shit American commercial software out there. The patriotic US flag waving and "made in US" does not automatically make it the best software. Also many organisations, especially in Europe, will almost bend over backwards to avoid being tied too much to the US because of what the three-letter-agencies get up to, and the anti-foreigner legislation that supports them. The recipe to get rid of that "natural discomfort with foreignness" that yanks have is simple: Most Americans just need to get out more ... get that passport that so few of you have and spend some proper time outside US borders (and no, trips to Canada don't count, and likely neither does Mexico).
- mwcampbell 4y ago
  I'm sorry. I'll be more careful next time. I do have a passport, but I haven't yet used it. Edit: However: > Like most people on here, I'm sure I can safely speak for the majority when I say there is plenty of shit American commercial software out there. The patriotic US flag waving and "made in US" does not automatically make it the best software. As someone who happens to be American, I emphatically agree. I regret that I didn't make this clear in my original comment. I meant to say that I think projects like Rustdesk and the Zoom Windows app are better than a lot of American crap in some important ways. I was trying not to be arrogant, but clearly I failed. Edit 2: As for xenophobia, yes, I'm prone to it. I thought that was a natural human tendency, not peculiarly American, but I could be wrong.
- Hnrobert42 4y ago
  I think you misunderstood GP’s comment. Also, it is odd to see such stereotyping used to substantiate a criticism of a comment as xenophobic.
zacmps 4y ago
There are examples elsewhere in this thread of Rust code which is obviously incorrect (static mut values not protected by a mutex). I would not put any faith in the security of this software, which for remote desktop, is a problem.

smarx007 4y ago

Poor translation maybe too? See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31456645 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31456645, "with no concerns about security" sounds quite different from "don't have to worry about security".

tikimcfee 4y ago

If I may add a little to this: I am a native English speaker living in the USA. I constantly feel belittled, undermined, and shunned by the technically literate - especially the hyper technically literate - because of the exact negativity you’re talking about. I can only imagine the level of shock someone who hasn’t built up calluses to the mentality would feel. The negativity is most often this kind of discourse. How gizmo x wont possibly fly because of some rules and general ideas, and how this person’s other gizmo is really the bar to meet, and everything else is not worth their time. I cannot impart to you how terrible I felt for months thinking that I was such a bad engineer that I couldn’t stand up a simple web server on a droplet. I felt like “it’s just so easy and obvious” and I gave up multiple times. This may be crusty software by some people’s standards, but I challenge those same people to put down their high projects, spend 10 minutes writing an issue, or even a weekend with a PR, and dropping this whole schtick of “lol look at the bad developers doing bad things.” This comes off as damning and condemning, and it is by intent, but it’s also a cry for help. If you are technically literate enough to identify issues in something technical.. be the person that shares that understanding freely, instead of holding it like a bar of achievement.

iforgotpassword 4y ago

Even though this might add more negativity, when it comes to commercial or at least closed source software, I can attest that "China is worse". I don't think that transfers over to their open source community though. For one thing, one of the reasons it exists is because those people are fed up with the practices of the commercial players in China. Plus, even though there is the language barrier, they are still exposed to the Western open source community, so at least some of our views and practices might have made it over. I think the "trample the users gdm config" issue for example might be a small influence from the Chinese proprietary software world. A quick and dirty fix. At least there was some message in this case. Usually, proprietary Chinese software doesn't even ask. There was some wild stuff going on in the XP days.

traceroute66 4y ago

> It may trigger our natural discomfort with foreignness, but some of the differences from the typical American commercial software culture I have to say, this phrase just struck me as pure arrogant xenophobia. Like most people on here, I'm sure I can safely speak for the majority when I say there is plenty of shit American commercial software out there. The patriotic US flag waving and "made in US" does not automatically make it the best software. Also many organisations, especially in Europe, will almost bend over backwards to avoid being tied too much to the US because of what the three-letter-agencies get up to, and the anti-foreigner legislation that supports them. The recipe to get rid of that "natural discomfort with foreignness" that yanks have is simple: Most Americans just need to get out more ... get that passport that so few of you have and spend some proper time outside US borders (and no, trips to Canada don't count, and likely neither does Mexico).

mwcampbell 4y ago
I'm sorry. I'll be more careful next time. I do have a passport, but I haven't yet used it. Edit: However: > Like most people on here, I'm sure I can safely speak for the majority when I say there is plenty of shit American commercial software out there. The patriotic US flag waving and "made in US" does not automatically make it the best software. As someone who happens to be American, I emphatically agree. I regret that I didn't make this clear in my original comment. I meant to say that I think projects like Rustdesk and the Zoom Windows app are better than a lot of American crap in some important ways. I was trying not to be arrogant, but clearly I failed. Edit 2: As for xenophobia, yes, I'm prone to it. I thought that was a natural human tendency, not peculiarly American, but I could be wrong.
Hnrobert42 4y ago
I think you misunderstood GP’s comment. Also, it is odd to see such stereotyping used to substantiate a criticism of a comment as xenophobic.

zacmps 4y ago

There are examples elsewhere in this thread of Rust code which is obviously incorrect (static mut values not protected by a mutex). I would not put any faith in the security of this software, which for remote desktop, is a problem.