4 ms·

Ask HN: Where to relocate our trading and research group of 7 people

1 points by notacat 4y ago

3 years ago, I started an algotrading project with the goal of funding fundamental AI research. This has gone really well, we are now trading 0.5-3% of the overall crypto market and our AUM has grown to 9 digits, and we have a team of 7 people. The short term goal is to relocate our activity (which is currently in France) and have the trading operate independent of myself by hiring and transferring knowledge, so that I can focus on growing the AI research team. I initially wanted to relocate to the US because it has the best AI research community, but because it's so hostile to trading crypto derivatives (which is a large part of what we do), we decided to stay in Europe. The two places we are considering are London or Zug/Zurich. I actually prefer London as the AI/ML community is bigger. Kings Cross feels like a proper "tech hub" with Google and Deepmind there. English is the main language, and people are welcoming and risk-taking. Zug/Zurich has better taxes and lifestyle (lake, mountains, food, air quality), but people are more standoffish and it's harder to make friends. What is really complicating this decision is that I have a weird headache issue : in some places (I did live in Budapest for a while as well as London), I have a low-to-medium-intensity permanent headache. I did keep a daily log and the pattern is really clear. Whenever I am in Budapest or London, the headache shows up after 2 days of being there. Whenever I move elsewhere, it goes away after 1 to 2 weeks. I did have it at other times, especially when travelling but not as intensely. I did have it when travelling to Zug for the first time, but it went away. In Budapest it never went away after 5 months of being there. In London, I don't know as I never stayed for longer than 10 days. I did consult with GPs but the cause is unclear. One doctor said it's maybe a tension-type headache. I did try to do sport, sleep better, eat better. But location seems to be the highest correlation and I'm still very unsure of the cause. I am the majority shareholder and founder of the trading/research operation, so I have the final word about where to go. What I am wondering is wether that headache issue is bad enough to tip the scale in favor of Zug. Form a business perspective, London is better. But I just don't feel good there. The state of uncertainty that has lasted since 5 months now is hard to bear for the team, so I don't want to take too long to make that decision. Any tips about how to navigate this choice?

tornato7 4y ago
I work for a 2-3x larger crypto fund and we thrive as a fully remote workforce. We have naturally formed small hubs around the world. Basically, why relocate? Hire anywhere!
- notacat 4y ago
  Staying remote was a consideration indeed. We generally have a better time when the team is together. My vision for the long-term research is "a bunch of phds in a room". According to that vision, we have to agree where the room is.
michepriest 4y ago
First of all, congratulations on the success of your project! Secondly, I'm sorry to hear about your headaches. I suffer from fragrance induced migraines as well as migraines triggered by pressure changes in the atmosphere. Calgary, Canada was terrible for me. I moved to Vancouver, and it's been a game changer. I have a few questions: 1. What are all the ways your headaches impact your productivity? 2. What are all of the options available to you (other than location)? Sounds like these need to be full-time cities for you to grow the AI research team. I'm wondering if a rotation could work or some other ways to grow the team without been in London full time. Options could include living outside of London and having the team come to you for their "off-site" a few times a month. I lived in Dorset. It's gorgeous there. Probably too far from London for you, but perhaps there's something workable. 3. What are all of the risks with all of the options available to you? For example, missing out on talent by not being in a hub like London (an assumption to validate), not forming deep bonds by not being in London full-time (tons of ways to address this), etc. A risk analysis may help bring clarity to your decision. I help people get unstuck for a living. Hopefully these questions help somewhat.
- notacat 4y ago
  Thanks for the input. The atmosphere change is an interesting hypothesis. It's one I though about but haven't researched much. Do you know good sources for reading about it? With the team, we agree that me not being physically present sucks for everyone (in the plan where most people are in London but I'm not). We also think that things will work great in Zug because we can eventually open a second office in Zurich, and Zurich is a very decent tech hub for talent (for trading, crypto and and ML research). What makes the choice tough is my belief that London is the "superior" tech hub in Europe, and I don't like missing out on it. I'm tempted to try an extended stay in London to see if the headache eventually goes away while there. But it's also a very unpleasant experiment, which makes me want to just go to Zug. Regarding your questions: 1- I can work and I have energy when I have the headaches. But they are unpleasant and ruin my mood over longer periods, eg after a few days I don't look forward to doing things and I'm mostly concerned with feeling better, which ultimately affect my productivity quite a bit. 2- I have a daily log, and headaches are very correlated with location. I know that I will feel good in Zug, so if I want to solve the headache for good, going there is a good option. I also thought about quitting altogether (I have enough to retire and finance ambitious projects). But I think the best course of action is making the trading independent of myself by hiring people and transferring knowledge, then start the AI research operation. The AI research operation is my long term goal. I plan to operate it independently but in tandem with the trading. Both the trading and research will benefit from each other long term. 3- - Going to London: potentially suffering long term from the headache and having to live elsewhere and away from the team - Going to Zug: missing out on London - Quitting: missing out on a potential bright future of the trading operation
Gatsky 4y ago
Barometric pressure is thought to induce headaches in some people [1]. Another possibility could be allergens, particularly grass pollen and tree pollen which can display large geographic variations. Another is ergonomics, eg are you using a laptop in some places and not others, or is your set up less ergonomic in some places. I must say this pattern of headache is a bit unusual. Migraines shouldn't persist for months, and they are the typical type of headache induced by barometric pressure. If you have the means then think about getting an MRI brain. Very rarely there could be something like a vascular malformation which would be worth discovering. There is a risk of unrelated incidental findings however. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684554/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684554/

1 points by notacat 4y ago

tornato7 4y ago

I work for a 2-3x larger crypto fund and we thrive as a fully remote workforce. We have naturally formed small hubs around the world. Basically, why relocate? Hire anywhere!

notacat 4y ago
Staying remote was a consideration indeed. We generally have a better time when the team is together. My vision for the long-term research is "a bunch of phds in a room". According to that vision, we have to agree where the room is.

michepriest 4y ago

First of all, congratulations on the success of your project! Secondly, I'm sorry to hear about your headaches. I suffer from fragrance induced migraines as well as migraines triggered by pressure changes in the atmosphere. Calgary, Canada was terrible for me. I moved to Vancouver, and it's been a game changer. I have a few questions: 1. What are all the ways your headaches impact your productivity? 2. What are all of the options available to you (other than location)? Sounds like these need to be full-time cities for you to grow the AI research team. I'm wondering if a rotation could work or some other ways to grow the team without been in London full time. Options could include living outside of London and having the team come to you for their "off-site" a few times a month. I lived in Dorset. It's gorgeous there. Probably too far from London for you, but perhaps there's something workable. 3. What are all of the risks with all of the options available to you? For example, missing out on talent by not being in a hub like London (an assumption to validate), not forming deep bonds by not being in London full-time (tons of ways to address this), etc. A risk analysis may help bring clarity to your decision. I help people get unstuck for a living. Hopefully these questions help somewhat.

notacat 4y ago
Thanks for the input. The atmosphere change is an interesting hypothesis. It's one I though about but haven't researched much. Do you know good sources for reading about it? With the team, we agree that me not being physically present sucks for everyone (in the plan where most people are in London but I'm not). We also think that things will work great in Zug because we can eventually open a second office in Zurich, and Zurich is a very decent tech hub for talent (for trading, crypto and and ML research). What makes the choice tough is my belief that London is the "superior" tech hub in Europe, and I don't like missing out on it. I'm tempted to try an extended stay in London to see if the headache eventually goes away while there. But it's also a very unpleasant experiment, which makes me want to just go to Zug. Regarding your questions: 1- I can work and I have energy when I have the headaches. But they are unpleasant and ruin my mood over longer periods, eg after a few days I don't look forward to doing things and I'm mostly concerned with feeling better, which ultimately affect my productivity quite a bit. 2- I have a daily log, and headaches are very correlated with location. I know that I will feel good in Zug, so if I want to solve the headache for good, going there is a good option. I also thought about quitting altogether (I have enough to retire and finance ambitious projects). But I think the best course of action is making the trading independent of myself by hiring people and transferring knowledge, then start the AI research operation. The AI research operation is my long term goal. I plan to operate it independently but in tandem with the trading. Both the trading and research will benefit from each other long term. 3- - Going to London: potentially suffering long term from the headache and having to live elsewhere and away from the team - Going to Zug: missing out on London - Quitting: missing out on a potential bright future of the trading operation

Gatsky 4y ago

Barometric pressure is thought to induce headaches in some people [1]. Another possibility could be allergens, particularly grass pollen and tree pollen which can display large geographic variations. Another is ergonomics, eg are you using a laptop in some places and not others, or is your set up less ergonomic in some places. I must say this pattern of headache is a bit unusual. Migraines shouldn't persist for months, and they are the typical type of headache induced by barometric pressure. If you have the means then think about getting an MRI brain. Very rarely there could be something like a vascular malformation which would be worth discovering. There is a risk of unrelated incidental findings however. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684554/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684554/