4 ms·

Babies Collapse Household Systems

14 points by zekenie 4y ago

toomuchtodo 4y ago
> It's totally worth it. Highly subjective take.
- zekenie 4y ago
  Fair. Personal blogs are famously objective places lol
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Not saying it hasn’t worked out for you (kudos if it has!), but being part of a Facebook group with 80k+ participants who regret being parents (as a casual observer), I’m just pointing out it’s not a universal truth. It’s totally worth it for you. For many, it is not.
    - zekenie 4y ago
      Totally get it. I guess I’m saying that there’s a parenthetical “in my experience” attached to everything I say. I do not believe being a parent is right for everyone or in all situations. I’m just saying that even though it’s hard, if you want to do it, it’s worth it (in my experience)
      - toomuchtodo 4y ago
        Totally fair. As a parent, no one told me what the experience was going to be like. An older friend (with college age children) said, “if we told you what it was like, you never would’ve had them.” It’s expensive. It’s suffering. It is never ending, and there is no guarantee your children will care about you when they become adults and are autonomous. You’ve taken on a decades long job you’re paying for. Consider my comments as attempts to inform before permanent life decisions are made, because for many, no one is being real about what the experience is going to be like.
    - Turing_Machine 4y ago
      When compared to the number of people on Earth (or even the number of people on Facebook), 80k isn't even a rounding error.
      - toomuchtodo 4y ago
        I should’ve used a better example. The parent regret rate in the developed world is roughly around 10%. That’s significant and worth calling out. https://sciencenorway.no/children/how-many-people-actually-regret-having-children/1898652 https://sciencenorway.no/children/how-many-people-actually-r...
- swayvil 4y ago
  It makes all the glands happy. And who doesn't like happy glands?
- nunez 4y ago
  It's a huge irreversible bet, and I hate casinos
bigdict 4y ago
- clint 4y ago
  the parent who gave birth to the child
  - sourfren 4y ago
    - zekenie 4y ago
      Adoption, surrogacy, people who give birth but don’t identify as moms, etc
- wazoox 4y ago
  Used to be called a "mother".
  - zekenie 4y ago
    Y’a know we live in a complicated world with surrogacy, adoption, people who give birth who don’t identify as women, etc
  - dbsights 4y ago
    I'll admit I got to the same phrase and violently closed the tab. Something about newspeak revolts me, once I see the "message" promulgated, I just cant take the author seriously anymore.
    - zekenie 4y ago
      Ok
showerst 4y ago
Having a 9 month old I feel this in my bones. Our bottle wash - dry - sterilize - fill pipeline alone has gone from piles of chaos to a finally tuned machine. It’s like a more gratifying factorio, although the biters get larger faster. =)
- D13Fd 4y ago
  Do you need to sterilize? Our pipeline has been dishwasher -> fill -> feed -> repeat. They dry overnight on the dishwasher.
- senectus1 4y ago
  it gets better mate. I have two, (14 and 12). We raised them both almost completely on our own... having no parents nearby to assist and we're both fiercely independent anyway. your 9 month old will get easier to manage and the 2nd (if you have a 2nd) will be a smoother/flatter difficulty curve.
D13Fd 4y ago
4 kids here. The first is a bit of a shock. I think it’s mostly because people rightly fear the unknown, but then react by buying way too much stuff. But really there is no need for it to “collapse” a household due to the need to manage objects/things. Kids really don’t need that much. Clothes, a place to sleep, food, some toys. A car seat. Diapers and wipes. Babies need bottles, and the mother needs a pump if she is working (as most do) unless you’re doing formula. It’s not as much as it seems. The biggest shock is the cost of daycare IMO, which can easily exceed the cost of a mortgage in some areas of you have multiple kids (or maybe even with one).
- number6 4y ago
  We have two; we one though of having 4, but the curve from one to two is immense. Is it getting better or better is the incline less steep with 3 and 4?
  - teilo 4y ago
    I reared 6, with 2 still at home. It all depends. With a stay at home parent, the curve is shallow. You're likely already got the vehicle you need for transport. Insurance does not go up after 2. So it's just food, clothing, and bunk beds at that point. It's all a matter of life choices. As they get older, if you rear them right, you have built-in baby sitters. Some will point out college. Again, it's a matter of life choices. All mine decided to learn a trade, and so far are very successful at that. The oldest at home is presently apprenticing to be a small aircraft mechanic.
  - D13Fd 4y ago
    We both work. For me, 0->1 was a big change, and 1->2 and up each felt like smaller changes. But I expect it’s different for everyone!
sourfren 4y ago
- zekenie 4y ago
  Not everyone who gives birth embraces the word, for a number of reasons. Sometimes people have surrogates give birth. Sometimes moms and dads adopt and don't give birth. Sometimes people who give birth don't identify as women. I know people in many of these groups so I tried to write in an inclusive way. It's not that you can't use the word mother! I have a mother. I'm married to a mother. And no one is telling you what you can and can't say! _I_ just chose to use broader language. The amount of weird comments about it is weird IMO.
  - sourfren 4y ago
nunez 4y ago
I do not want kids, ever (I'm 34 going on 35 soon), but OP is absolutely correct about this: > It should be a choice. Abortion should be legal, de-stigmatized, safe and easy to access. > We can afford, as a society, to make it a little easier on babies and new parents. It's not right that many states and countries criminalize abortion because "think of the children", and it's also not right that parenting is So. Fucking. Expensive. ~~Why does day care cost two Model S financed loans per month for many people? Why are diapers and formula so unbelievably expensive when they've probably recovered their R&D costs several times over?~~ Why are parents forced to be in the office when their jobs do not require it but their kids require _them_? EDIT: I can't strikethrough stuff on HN but I realized that daycares and COGS for baby stuff makes sense to be pricey. I don't understand leadership teams calling people back into the office despite stable or increasing productivity numbers, especially leaders that are parents themselves.
- david38 4y ago
  I am a father of two. Child care is labor. You want to be rich, yet have some poor woman work for minimum wage? My wife stayed home, I worked. Having children is hard, but as hard as people like to pretend. Diapers are extremely cheap when you use reusable ones. When did consumers come to believe throwing a diaper away every time a baby soiled itself was financially or ecologically viable? The vast majority of people use formula by choice. Cry me a river. Mothers have breasts for a reason, and looking good in a bikini isn’t it. How pleasant your life must be when you think the default situation for parents is to be in the office.

14 points by zekenie 4y ago

toomuchtodo 4y ago

> It's totally worth it. Highly subjective take.

zekenie 4y ago
Fair. Personal blogs are famously objective places lol
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Not saying it hasn’t worked out for you (kudos if it has!), but being part of a Facebook group with 80k+ participants who regret being parents (as a casual observer), I’m just pointing out it’s not a universal truth. It’s totally worth it for you. For many, it is not.
  - zekenie 4y ago
    Totally get it. I guess I’m saying that there’s a parenthetical “in my experience” attached to everything I say. I do not believe being a parent is right for everyone or in all situations. I’m just saying that even though it’s hard, if you want to do it, it’s worth it (in my experience)
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      Totally fair. As a parent, no one told me what the experience was going to be like. An older friend (with college age children) said, “if we told you what it was like, you never would’ve had them.” It’s expensive. It’s suffering. It is never ending, and there is no guarantee your children will care about you when they become adults and are autonomous. You’ve taken on a decades long job you’re paying for. Consider my comments as attempts to inform before permanent life decisions are made, because for many, no one is being real about what the experience is going to be like.
  - Turing_Machine 4y ago
    When compared to the number of people on Earth (or even the number of people on Facebook), 80k isn't even a rounding error.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      I should’ve used a better example. The parent regret rate in the developed world is roughly around 10%. That’s significant and worth calling out. https://sciencenorway.no/children/how-many-people-actually-regret-having-children/1898652 https://sciencenorway.no/children/how-many-people-actually-r...
swayvil 4y ago
It makes all the glands happy. And who doesn't like happy glands?
nunez 4y ago
It's a huge irreversible bet, and I hate casinos

bigdict 4y ago

clint 4y ago
the parent who gave birth to the child
- sourfren 4y ago
  - zekenie 4y ago
    Adoption, surrogacy, people who give birth but don’t identify as moms, etc
wazoox 4y ago
Used to be called a "mother".
- zekenie 4y ago
  Y’a know we live in a complicated world with surrogacy, adoption, people who give birth who don’t identify as women, etc
- dbsights 4y ago
  I'll admit I got to the same phrase and violently closed the tab. Something about newspeak revolts me, once I see the "message" promulgated, I just cant take the author seriously anymore.
  - zekenie 4y ago
    Ok

showerst 4y ago

Having a 9 month old I feel this in my bones. Our bottle wash - dry - sterilize - fill pipeline alone has gone from piles of chaos to a finally tuned machine. It’s like a more gratifying factorio, although the biters get larger faster. =)

D13Fd 4y ago
Do you need to sterilize? Our pipeline has been dishwasher -> fill -> feed -> repeat. They dry overnight on the dishwasher.
senectus1 4y ago
it gets better mate. I have two, (14 and 12). We raised them both almost completely on our own... having no parents nearby to assist and we're both fiercely independent anyway. your 9 month old will get easier to manage and the 2nd (if you have a 2nd) will be a smoother/flatter difficulty curve.

D13Fd 4y ago

4 kids here. The first is a bit of a shock. I think it’s mostly because people rightly fear the unknown, but then react by buying way too much stuff. But really there is no need for it to “collapse” a household due to the need to manage objects/things. Kids really don’t need that much. Clothes, a place to sleep, food, some toys. A car seat. Diapers and wipes. Babies need bottles, and the mother needs a pump if she is working (as most do) unless you’re doing formula. It’s not as much as it seems. The biggest shock is the cost of daycare IMO, which can easily exceed the cost of a mortgage in some areas of you have multiple kids (or maybe even with one).

number6 4y ago
We have two; we one though of having 4, but the curve from one to two is immense. Is it getting better or better is the incline less steep with 3 and 4?
- teilo 4y ago
  I reared 6, with 2 still at home. It all depends. With a stay at home parent, the curve is shallow. You're likely already got the vehicle you need for transport. Insurance does not go up after 2. So it's just food, clothing, and bunk beds at that point. It's all a matter of life choices. As they get older, if you rear them right, you have built-in baby sitters. Some will point out college. Again, it's a matter of life choices. All mine decided to learn a trade, and so far are very successful at that. The oldest at home is presently apprenticing to be a small aircraft mechanic.
- D13Fd 4y ago
  We both work. For me, 0->1 was a big change, and 1->2 and up each felt like smaller changes. But I expect it’s different for everyone!

sourfren 4y ago

zekenie 4y ago
Not everyone who gives birth embraces the word, for a number of reasons. Sometimes people have surrogates give birth. Sometimes moms and dads adopt and don't give birth. Sometimes people who give birth don't identify as women. I know people in many of these groups so I tried to write in an inclusive way. It's not that you can't use the word mother! I have a mother. I'm married to a mother. And no one is telling you what you can and can't say! _I_ just chose to use broader language. The amount of weird comments about it is weird IMO.
- sourfren 4y ago

nunez 4y ago

I do not want kids, ever (I'm 34 going on 35 soon), but OP is absolutely correct about this: > It should be a choice. Abortion should be legal, de-stigmatized, safe and easy to access. > We can afford, as a society, to make it a little easier on babies and new parents. It's not right that many states and countries criminalize abortion because "think of the children", and it's also not right that parenting is So. Fucking. Expensive. ~~Why does day care cost two Model S financed loans per month for many people? Why are diapers and formula so unbelievably expensive when they've probably recovered their R&D costs several times over?~~ Why are parents forced to be in the office when their jobs do not require it but their kids require _them_? EDIT: I can't strikethrough stuff on HN but I realized that daycares and COGS for baby stuff makes sense to be pricey. I don't understand leadership teams calling people back into the office despite stable or increasing productivity numbers, especially leaders that are parents themselves.

david38 4y ago
I am a father of two. Child care is labor. You want to be rich, yet have some poor woman work for minimum wage? My wife stayed home, I worked. Having children is hard, but as hard as people like to pretend. Diapers are extremely cheap when you use reusable ones. When did consumers come to believe throwing a diaper away every time a baby soiled itself was financially or ecologically viable? The vast majority of people use formula by choice. Cry me a river. Mothers have breasts for a reason, and looking good in a bikini isn’t it. How pleasant your life must be when you think the default situation for parents is to be in the office.