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> And that’s to move towards a negotiated settlement. This is, unfortunately, half the problem. Western intellectuals are working under the assumption that the
by kstenerud 4y ago
> And that’s to move towards a negotiated settlement.
This is, unfortunately, half the problem. Western intellectuals are working under the assumption that they are dealing with a state that thinks in modern terms. Ukrainians know that Russia thinks in 19th century terms, but this simple fact seems to be lost on the West. There cannot be a negotiated settlement to an old-style conquest; Ukraine is literally fighting for its existence.
It's like living with a psychopath. He knows exactly what to say to placate or distract or sideline everyone else, and give himself room to abuse and torment his target. And since Russia's propaganda machine is so effective, they actually have the elites in many places (for example Italy) parroting the party line. Hell, they even have the venerable and respected Chomsky playing their game!
To put it in perspective:
- Since when is it acceptable to invade another country, flatten their cities, send tens of millions fleeing as refugees, block their ports and threaten the world food supply, giving "because there are nazis there" as your reason? How in the hell did this ever become a valid talking point?
- Since when is it acceptable to invade country X because country Y is allowing it to join a treaty? Shouldn't country X be allowed to decide with whom they ally themselves without getting killed over it? That's like beating up your girlfriend because some other guy hit on her.
The Western intellectuals have been thinking in imperialistic terms (USA vs Russia), when in fact it's about UKRAINE, a sovereign nation with a right to exist, a country that did not threaten its neighbors or build up troops on the border like Russia has done (and then invaded). All they want is their territorial integrity back and to live securely. And no negotiated settlement with Russia will bring that because allowing Putin to "save face" will involve giving up territory, blocking any potential future defense pacts, and then sitting around waiting for invasion #3.
- cmrdporcupine 4y agoI don't think it's 19th vs 20th vs 21st century terms or whatever. It's political-economic interests and contradictions and competing interests around global capital. A fight over who controls resources and which country's capitalist classes get dominance over resources and markets. Aka a classic imperialist war. And clearly the Russians are willing to mobilize 19th century Tsarist style "Great Russian" nationalism + a heaping dose Duginist Russo-fascism in service of this agenda. But I think it's naive to think that Lavrov (Mouth of Sauron) and Putin and the people lining up behind them actually truly believe this cack. That's for all the useful idiots.
- kstenerud 4y agoActually, Putin does believe it. He's stated many times, as have his subordinates, that his goal is the absorption of "Little Russia" and the rebirth of the Russian empire to stand at her rightful place as a primary power in the world (and as payback for the many humiliations she has suffered at the hands of the West). You can see it in how quickly Russia installs collaborators in Ukrainian regions who suddenly declare that they wish to be annexed by Russia. These kinds of idealistic psychopathic people do exist, and they are incredibly dangerous if they get into positions of power.
- eveningcoffee 4y agoIf you have time https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/16/ivan-ilyin-putins-philosopher-of-russian-fascism/ https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/16/ivan-ilyin-putins-p...
- yonaguska 4y agoI see your point, but at the end of the day, when it really is two imperialist powers, USA vs Russia actually calling the shots, does it matter that western intellectuals aren't acknowledging the Ukrainian perspective? From my outside perspective, the Ukrainain perspective isn't what people focus on, simply because Ukrainians have no choice, or rather, there is only a singular choice. And they are entirely dependent on the whims of the two imperialist powers fighting a proxy war with Ukrainain blood. American politicians couldn't care less about the actual Ukrainian people. This is about either crippling Russia and scoring the political points to say they did it, or securing money either for their personal coffers or feeding their local Military Industrial Complex. I personally think that the Ukrainian perspective matters, but we(westerners) won't care until it's too late. Tangentially related, our most recent home grown white supremacist shooter was inspired at least in part by Azov battalion, he wore a black sun patch and lifted several parts of his manifesto from Brendan Tarrant directly, another neo Nazi that actually spent time in Ukraine, with the Azov battalion being an inspiration. I imagine Russia will also be facing internal unrest for generations for what's happening in Ukraine. Maybe this is their Chernobyl moment.
- kstenerud 4y agoActually it's the entire Western world against Russia. I've never seen such unity in Europe over a single issue, nor has there ever been such a big military investment here since the second world war. Even SWITZERLAND picked sides! This isn't anything like those old silly USA-led NATO adventures where the European "partners" would send some token troops and try to keep quiet about it back home. This invasion has woken the sleeping European giant.
- refurb 4y agoThe counter argument is the Western elite are thinking the world has changed while every other country including Russia are still playing by 20th century Sphere of Influence geopolitics. The US invaded Cuba when the Russians installed missiles, so is it surprising in the least that Russia is intervening when NATO moves up to their border?
- eveningcoffee 4y agoProblem in Russia is that they imagine that they are a superpower in some capacity. They are not. It was believed in the West that perhaps they have modernized their army but they have not. If you have serious interest to understand what delusion started this war then please read this text https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/16/ivan-ilyin-putins-philosopher-of-russian-fascism/ https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/16/ivan-ilyin-putins-p...